Park Hours 2014

GaryH said:

OK let me ask you a question (aimed at everyone):

If you went to work for a company (or for an interview) and they said your working hours were 8am until 6pm - but, the company reserves the right to extend these as it feels appropriate, up until 9pm with no advance notice, for which you would be expected to work, would you do the job?

Now bearing in mind lets say you have a life outside of work too, seeing the gf or bf in the evening, making plans to go to the cinema after work, or meet friends for a meal, few drinks in the pub etc. and you'd have to cancel those plans at a moments notice to stay on working, would you be ok with that?

Would you also continue to still have a happy smiley face with the customers, feel great about having to work longer, even though your shattered from being on your feet all day?

Just curious.

My point im trying to make is that 0 hour contracts are a disgrace and shouldnt be allowed in any company. Its total disregard for the workforce. Not knowing when you will be working, what hours, what salary to expect etc.

I guess what im trying to say is that rather than vary the opening hours at a moments notice depending on weather, visitor numbers etc, Alton should have rigid set hours, which extend more than they currently do in the summer, and with staff working those hours who (a) are happy to do so and (b) fully aware of what time they are starting and finishing.

Plus, to be fair, if I went to alton lets say, 9th July and it was gorgeous sunny day, but the park close was 6pm, then the next day when I had gone home, a few more people visited, and they extended the close until 7pm - i'd be feeling a bit peeved!

I also fully agree with Dar's comment above, maybe its not about keeping the "park" and rides open but more about having places on towers street to stop and have a meal or drinks and a rest before having to head back to the car and drive home. Now that would be entirely do able.

PS sorry for the rant if it comes across that way, but I just feel in todays society we all live in this want want and want it now mentality, and bugger the poor employee - as long as im ok Jack, thats all that matters seems to be the common feeling from a lot of the public unfortunately.

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Thanks for your post Gary, you have raised some interesting questions which I'm sure a few people will be interested in discussing.

Regarding your first few sections, yes, I would be willing to drop a few social occasions a year if needs must for the business. I have worked in retail for around 13 years and as such I understand that due to the nature of the occupation occasionally the needs of the business will need some flexibility from the employee (myself). I've found over my years that a bit of give and take can work well, even in big corporations (such as the one I work for). That's why when the business/store/department finds itself unexpectedly in a sticky patch (you may equate this to very large crowds at a theme park on an unexpectedly hot day if you wish to) I'll put myself out for a matter of hours if needs be, knowing that (apart from the extra wages that I'll get) if I need a favour from the store/department/manager etc in future they'll be more likely to oblige as I've shown support for the greater good. And this is a grocery retail business I'm talking about, so I'd expect at least this level of commitment from people in the leisure business when it comes to providing customer satisfaction for people who in some cases may have travelled 100s of miles for their only trip of the year.

And yes, in an ideal world, there shouldn't be a zero hour contract.

Unfortunately though (and this is where people start thinking I'm talking like a loony), we're living in a country where people can not pick and choose jobs. If people are not happy to agree to work a few extra hours unexpectedly here and there, there will be many others who will (the harsh truth).

After the Black Death (see, this is where I start talking a bit like a loony) the peasants and other labourers in this country got better wages and a better choice of jobs as there were less people around and more work that could not be fulfilled. Unfortunately, these days there's less work and many more people (on average) so if I was interested in working at Alton and the price for that was working the odd extra few hours here and there, I'd be more than happy to do it.

Basically, what I'm saying is, I expect people to have more commitment to their given business sometimes as opposed to 'work to rule'. It should work both ways though.

Surely you have to be prepared to be flexible in any job? It's one of the things that I have always been asked at job interviews, are you prepared to work longer on some days if needs be? If you're not then you probably won't get the job. If you are commited to your job and want to do the best you can for yourself and who you work for, working an extra 30 minutes on the odd occasion is not too much of a pain.

Yes I would agree that you should be flexible in any job you have, that's normal. What we are saying is when does a job stop from being flexible to taking the piss. I'm sure the staff at Alton already do a lot of overtime and staying back. But what would they get in return. Time back? More money? A big thumbs from the company? More flack from the public? Pressure from managers?

Being flexible and wanting to be flexible are different things, especially on a weekend, when lets face it people don't like working.

Back to the topic...... If they could just keep the food and drinks places open longer I'm all for that. It cant harm the profits that much keeping these places open for a hour and it would ease the pressure on the monorail and car parks/ local area. Nobody likes being pushed out of a door. The rides can close at normal times for me. On a sunny day let the people enjoy the late evening as the Talbots would have liked it. On the lawn in the sun not a care in the world.

I have worked in the leisure industry all my life and I am afraid it comes with the job that you work to the needs of the business. When I was in the pub trade if you was on say a 12-10 and it was a quiet day you would expect be asked to finish early so the people who started at 6 didn't loose out. You wouldn't have to finish but if it was quiet the manager could send you home as it was in your contract.

It wouldn't be so bad if the staff who was on the late shift at Alton was given the later finishing but advised they may be expected to finish early depending on weather or guest numbers. That way they could plan their social life around work and if the park did stay open late they wouldn't be having to cancel their plans to stay at work. Did Alton have staff rota'd on late in anticipation of still having guests in the park 2 hours after closing waiting for people to come of the smiler? This could have been the perfect opportunity to actually experiment with the later opening of at least towers street, as if I remember people saying how they were surprised how quickly everything closed up and it was a ghost town as they left.

I finish on the fact that in this day and age having fixed finishing time has become a luxury even my dad who has worked in the same factory for over 25 years has gone from a guaranteed shift pattern to annualised hours meaning if they get a big order in, and they are very busy he is expected to stay and help. I have known him being held back for an extra 4 hours before now, and isn't even guaranteed it as overtime. The same works in opposite if it is quiet they will know cut his shifts short, then after three months if he has any hours extra in the pot over what he should have worked he will then get that as overtime.

Ultimately we have to be thankful for a job and except that if in an interview we are asked are we flexible and we say yes, we have to expect to go the extra mile every so often. May that be staying a few extra hours if the park stays open late or finish early if it is quiet. Also as I finish up no on has mentioned what about when people phone in sick surely they will find people willing to stay and cover already.

Agree with the above, but just to add, in the leisure industry there is rarely set shifts. For example, you'r shift, may be '2-late' or '2 till CLOSE' - it's like most restaurants/bars. You work to the business demands. Its is expected, quite rightly.

In my job, I can't just walk out at 5 o'clock if I hadn't finished what needs to be done, the business needs me to stay, and I accept that I have to stay until I am in a position to leave. I will not get paid any extra, although I'm sure AT employees would, being hourly paid. There are other times though, where I can leave at 12, it's give and take. You know where the door is should you not like it, maybe reassess your career/work path too.

Slugjc said:

Being flexible and wanting to be flexible are different things, especially on a weekend, when lets face it people don't like working.

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Untrue. Yes, there are some people who don't like working, although if you strive to do something you want/enjoy, it CAN be achieved.

Ironically, most people DO like working at AT, it can be very rewarding among many other benefits, and there is absolutely no shortage of people WANTING to work there.

I would absolutely love to make someones day at work, make someones experience magical, help out a stranger, but overall helping people to have a great time, and let's be honest, press the 'Launch' button on Rita.

GaryH said:

OK let me ask you a question (aimed at everyone):

If you went to work for a company (or for an interview) and they said your working hours were 8am until 6pm - but, the company reserves the right to extend these as it feels appropriate, up until 9pm with no advance notice, for which you would be expected to work, would you do the job?

Now bearing in mind lets say you have a life outside of work too, seeing the gf or bf in the evening, making plans to go to the cinema after work, or meet friends for a meal, few drinks in the pub etc. and you'd have to cancel those plans at a moments notice to stay on working, would you be ok with that?

Would you also continue to still have a happy smiley face with the customers, feel great about having to work longer, even though your shattered from being on your feet all day?

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As said, in my job we do a 12 hour shift with one 30 min break. We have x amount of work that must be done, if at the end of the shift that work isn't done then you stay until it is and you don't get paid the extra time. At the end of that shift we are frequently on call and I believe the record shift currently stands at 22 hours (yet everyone in the public sector apparently has it easy ha). And we still have to smile even in hour 14.

There are lots of ways of having a way of increasing the day that is staff centred. Either through shifts or guaranteed extension limits. If people know the day won't increase by more than an hour to the advertised close then plans can still be made factoring that in.

Of course, with any job you must have flexibility, working later for example if the need arises. But what we seem to be discussing here would be a regular thing, particularly on days with nice weather, high visitor volumes, e.g. most of the summer.

Maybe my point I was trying to make has got a bit muddled, I guess I was thinking back to years ago when Sunday opening became the norm, and it was "expected" of people to work the extra hours on a Sunday. I remember many people complaining there felt they had to do it, even though some didnt want to, or couldnt, and in some cases, people lost their jobs due to their "inflexibility".

I guess I was just trying to make the point that if Alton were to operate like this, it should in a way where the staff are happy to do so, aware of the potential extra hours in the day, and not have it forced upon them.

Thats what i was trying to get across anyway! lol

GaryH said:

Of course, with any job you must have flexibility, working later for example if the need arises. But what we seem to be discussing here would be a regular thing, particularly on days with nice weather, high visitor volumes, e.g. most of the summer.

Maybe my point I was trying to make has got a bit muddled, I guess I was thinking back to years ago when Sunday opening became the norm, and it was "expected" of people to work the extra hours on a Sunday. I remember many people complaining there felt they had to do it, even though some didnt want to, or couldnt, and in some cases, people lost their jobs due to their "inflexibility".

I guess I was just trying to make the point that if Alton were to operate like this, it should in a way where the staff are happy to do so, aware of the potential extra hours in the day, and not have it forced upon them.

Thats what i was trying to get across anyway! lol

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In my mind, you have somewhat missed the point.

If you read the original post and suggestions, you will see that by and large, the closing times are already fixed. I don't think anybody is suggesting that the park start widely extending on the day by 2 or 3 hours! Not at all! But they should have, in their calendars, some slightly later closes in peak periods AND be prepared to extend my 30 or in extreme cases 60 minutes on the day (but this would not be frequent!).

Alton Towers have always extended by 30 or 60 minutes when it's been especially busy, and that is the nature of the tourism industry, as others have said. It may be an inconvenience, but the tourism industry has to be flexible, otherwise it will fail.

I recall working at Alton Towers in 2007, and during extended/late closes, some staff who had to leave early due to transport and/or other reasons, were still able to.

Having read some if the posts about extra hours. Seems to me that i have based it on my dyer job in a warehouse for a company that doesn't care. We have a banked hours shift that just isn't fair to the staff. And we nit guarenteed o,t pay.

i did work as a lifeguard and did work o,t often and enjoyed it hugely and didn't mind. If alton do look after there staff and they are happy, then ok. I think my original point was not to take the staff for granted.

i live in lively cas vagas ( castleford) think if i lived near i would apply to work at AT in a heart beat. Dream job, im glad the feed back on here is positive about the company. Ill will end on this. Please don't think because of the recession that people aren't still entitled to life away from there jobs and have the right not to be treated poorly. People have been neive on here and saying " least you got a job" mentality. That's not right, still humans and can still say no.

You're reading into this far, far too deeply...

I can't see anyone suggesting Alton start extending the ride close by hours at a time!?

I'm really confused...

Alton Towers hours have DROPPED since the recession, not grown. If anything, staff work less hours across the season than they did in 2007. This is due Merlin finances.

Ultimately, it's different peoples ideas to working. The almost absolute majority of people going to work at a theme park, at a bar, at a cinema, at anywhere leisure, know how the industry works and are happy about it. Otherwise they wouldn't work there.

Some people that's not suitable for them, they're the ones who go and work at set contracted hours and then moan at those who do it on forums instead. Everyones different.

thefatone said:

Ultimately, it's different peoples ideas to working. The almost absolute majority of people going to work at a theme park, at a bar, at a cinema, at anywhere leisure, know how the industry works and are happy about it. Otherwise they wouldn't work there.

Some people that's not suitable for them, they're the ones who go and work at set contracted hours and then moan at those who do it on forums instead. Everyones different.

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If I worked contracted hours I would take offence to that last comment........... apart from that you are right, in some sense if you work at a theme park, bar. etc. That working flexible is part of the job, even if you really wanted that job. working over when you don't want will still drag you down as a person.

But I also think it comes the down the employer as well as the employee. If staff are looked after and the company treats you well you have more chance of not minding weather you stay back, but if the employer or even a manager is a total tit, you do begin to think "No why should I" That's life.

My original concern through all of this is that, I've said before basing this on a dyer job in a Sainsbury's warehouse. Is that, its ok saying "the park should stay open" but there wasn't really enough consideration towards the staff. Who work hard for little money, and will already do long shifts day in day out. AT has always had very good staff, and are trained to be as engaging to the public as possible, how hard must it be for them at times to keep that smile on your face and conversation in your heart if the company took the piss in how long you work. In a society where the we have agency work, and a sense of "if you don't want the job pal, the polish will"

Even the hardest workers have a tipping point. Everyone just wants to be happy in there work, and have a social/family life. Some people don't want to work over as they see more important things in life then money.

I don't think anyone has suggested Towers staff need to do extreme amounts of overtime. Staff over the years (and decades) at Towers have worked 30 to 60 minutes over their normal hours - which is expected in the leisure industry. That's all that seems to be suggested in this topic, that Towers become more flexible with keeping the park open longer. For most staff at Towers an extra 30-60 minutes is nothing.

These suggested extra 30-60 minutes of working would only happen 2 weeks a year in the summer. Maybe the odd other day in the season too. It's not a tipping point at all. I think this has been exaggerated a bit too much. A place like Towers in reality should be staying open late until 7pm or 8pm on the busier days of the summer. What's being proposed in this topic is merely dribs and drabs. It's bugger all!

We're wishing for the bare minimum from the UKs biggest theme park!

2014 opening hours now on the site, but don't get your hopes up!

5pm I hear you say?

I hope Towers are planning on being more flexible when it comes to extending opening this year. I've just had a little look and between opening day (March 22nd) and May 27th there are just two 5.30pm closing times. Every other day is 5pm. Sure there are no 4pm closing times but that's awful! It looks like pretty much all of the Easter holidays will be 5pm. They're clearly not expecting the park to be busy before CBeebies land opens.

Yeah I wouldn't pay much attention to the online calendar. Last year it was constantly changed (not always for the better). I don't think they decide on closing times until a few weeks before do only March will be representative.

Well yes, last year they kept constantly bringing forward the closing times that they initially had on the website! Unless they want 4.30pm closing times that shouldn't be happening as much this year. I don't mind them stating 5pm if they are willing to extend ride close if and when the park is busy enough to warrant this.

They rarely extended through 2011-2013, and even when it was busy they barely did.

Furthermore, with cuts to ride opening times this season, I can't see there being money in the pot to close much later.

Hopefully they'll be better though...

I'm not holding my breath that they will extend much, just don't take that calendar as gospel truth as it will change like it did last season (in either direction)

Very poor opening times indeed.