2017/18: SW8 Speculation

Altonadvocate1 said:

I note that the preliminary plans say the new coaster will come within 75 metres of the prospect tower. Does anyone know for comparison, how close John Wardley's epic cross valley wooden coaster design from years ago came to the tower? It could give an indication of if we have any chance of a cross valley ride.

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Further away. Imagine a straight line between Dark Forest and Air's station, that's pretty much the line it went on. SW8, however, will be where The Blade/Ripsaw are, possibly dipping into the valley a bit.

Yes. As I've said numerous times in this topic - do not go expecting cross valley. Although it is something I am sure Towers have looked into it is not something they will ever do. It would be almost impossible for them to get planning permission for it.

So please excuse my very poor grasp of geography/image editing but is this roughly where we can expect to see the proposed SW8 or have I got it completely wrong?

Basically that, yes. Although I'd say it'll go further over towards the treeline near Sub-Terra rather than as close to Air as your area is on there.

^ Yeah, seems about right to me, location-wise. The area should be bigger though- here's what 1.7 hectares looks like:

Obviously very rough, and I didn't take into consideration path locations etc., but that is the approximate plot we're looking at. It really is a huge area of land (it completely dwarfs Nemesis for example), so it'll be interesting to see how far into FV it goes- I took the Blade and Ripsaw as the limits here, but it could stretch more towards N:ST if it tunnels under or goes over the main pathway. On the other hand, it could potentially stretch further into the valley also. I guess if someone (who has some time to kill) could work out what 127 trees are from Google Maps we could be more positive.

Only blindly speculating here, and I havn't read every single post so far.....but if the cross-valley doesn't come in to fruition (as many expect), it would be an interesting bit of land to work with if the side of the valley on top of which FV stands is used but also in conjunction with land freed up with the removal of the arcades (as well as the already expected Blade and Ripsaw). Even more interesting (with the removal of the arcade etc) if it extended not far from the edge of the upper lake and came relatively close to Duel in some way. I'm just throwing out thoughts to be honest. I welcome any actual facts that blow any of this idle fantasy out of the water to be honest

By god, Merlin a actually going to build a woodie?!

If they are going to stick it in Forbidden Valley though they my as well give up with themed areas altogether as a woodie is about as far from post-apocalyptic as you an get. With Air already in the area, it really will be a mess of contrasting themes.

But still, a woodie.....it must be too good to be true.

I still think we could be missing something here. The tree density in the shaded area is very high (I know there has been some thinning due to disease) and the path of a wooden coaster and supports is pretty wide. To have decent ride length they would need to decimate a huge area of woodland.

so here's my logic... (I'm going Spock on this)...

I find it difficult to see a woody utilising a huge near terrain drop into the valley only to do little with the gained momentum. John Wardley always talked about efficiency and utilising the speed gained from any drop which is why the pipeline coaster was rejected as SW1. With the exception of Oblivion, Towers coasters make great use of any momentum they incur from even a modest drop (I know about the trim on Thirteen), and in the case of Nemesis in particular to do so much with so little is amazing.

I could be wrong but I'm imagining the 1.7 hectare plot to be longer, but narrower.

I reckon if it drops into the valley, it must do something with the momentum. If they are unable to use the momentum, then I don't see a drop into the valley at all. And we allready have a truly great drop coaster. I'm thinking airtime hills for SW8. Woody's don't need enormous drops for airtime, but where there is a huge drop there is normally a good layout at speed. Furthermore it would not be possible to return to the original elevation following a drop into the valley without assistance ( a second lift hill).

That's why Nemesis's station is about halfway elevated between the highest and lowest points, to give it momentum to get back to the station. But if the station for SW8 is where Ripsaw and Blade are this is way higher than any full or partial drop into the valley.

I don't see a drop into the valley, immediate breaking then return up the hill. I say if it drops into the valley, it does something with the speed, or it does not go into the valley at all. If it does drop into the valley then a long, straight, low path with modest bunny hops taken at speed for airtime would be far less destructive than a tangled, twisted high density path, followed by an immediate return.

Well that's my attempt at going Columbo from the limited information available.

To quote Sherlock Holmes, if we eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable must be the truth.

Rob said:

Varney did also point out during the Q&A that market research does not totally dictate and direct decisions. It is just that - research. You have to take risks to be successful and going against research in favour of a woodie will be seen by Merlin as a big risk. Buy boy am I glad they've gone for it as it really will help complete Towers' coaster line-up.

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That's true. Although both Morwenna and John Wardley have stated in the past they need successful market research to get new developments passed off from the big bosses. Even Wardley has implied that Merlin do not take risks. So there is an obvious sudden change of mind. I don't believe for one minute Merlin bosses and Varney woke up one morning and gone 'fuck the market research, lets take a massive risk'.

Obviously those 'in the know' will understand a little more about how this woodie has come to fruition. Although for many enthusiasts I'm sure this news is somewhat of a shock, given the years and years we've had of being told a wooden coaster will not happen because it performs badly in research, won't happen because it has no USP, it's impossible to plan etc..

I'm still betting on this having some element that will give it the USP we see with every Merlin ride. There might be something coming to the industry that has interested Towers, Merlin and Varney to the point they want it at Towers first.

It is quite amazing that a wooden coaster is being discussed as a possibility, and from the document it does sound very much like they hope to build one.
Please let this happen!

Also, Ripsaw to X-Sector and Blade to Dark Forest anyone? (Rethemed in both cases).

Jamie said:

It is quite amazing that a wooden coaster is being discussed as a possibility, and from the document it does sound very much like they hope to build one.
Please let this happen!

Also, Ripsaw to X-Sector and Blade to Dark Forest anyone? (Rethemed in both cases).

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Very much doubt it. Both are very old rides, and although popular, probably wouldn't be worth the hassle of being taken apart and moved around. Plus, the rumours are that we'll be seeing new thrill flats for next year.

Alastair said:

Very much doubt it. Both are very old rides, and although popular, probably wouldn't be worth the hassle of being taken apart and moved around. Plus, the rumours are that we'll be seeing new thrill flats for next year.

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ohhhhh, where have they come from ?

towerslover101 said:

ohhhhh, where have they come from ?

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The rumour mill......

I have to say this is unexpected. It will be a hugh investment, and for once they are forward planning with the Air shop extension. Flats in 2016 in both x sector and dark forest would be great leaving a lot of room for this development.

I personally see something like Outlaw Run, which if that happens, i would be very very pleased. It would all but complete AT's coaster lineup......

One thing, would the work lead to a period where the whole of FV is unavailable??? Will AIR get a nice retheme / repaint....

Will the tunnel get done?

I agree with altonadvocate here, I think the whole idea that the ride will be a square is wrong, think out and back with this more than your traditional woodie. Heading towards Air with little airtime hills then dropping down the the side of the valley and up heading back past the station and toward dual. This is where the turnarounds and possible world first or USP will be and then back to the station,

This will also use the terrain a lot more and will never come above the tree line.

My concept of it all anyway

Because the ride mentions tunnels I quite like the idea of it using the bit of land Blade is sunken into and then going below the paths into FV that are nearby before heading out toward Duel. I like the idea of the entrance of FV interacting directly like that.

I love wild speculation - we don't even know what the planning app will be like yet haha!

I feel reasonably confident about the 1.7 hectares being a longer, narrower plot but am less sure about the direction. It's my first trip to AT this year on Tuesday so I will take a close look at the area and see if I can figure it out.

Glad at least one person can see it the same way.

the only thing I think people should remember is this is not a planning application. They wanted an opinion for a concept and if I was Towers I would have submitted the wildest idea it possible could be to see where the ceiling was for such a coaster.

What they actually build could be very different to what is described in this EAI. Just don't want people over hyping then possibly getting dissapointed.

I thought it was to see if the application would need an assessment? Surely if they submit something that differs significantly from what they sought an opinion on, the council would need to go through the assessment procedure again?

Dar said:

I thought it was to see if the application would need an assessment? Surely if they submit something that differs significantly from what they sought an opinion on, the council would need to go through the assessment procedure again?

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The council could force an EIA on any application, this was a pre-application request to see if an EIA would be required. It would stand to reason that if your final plan had a lesser impact on the environment then you can be sure a EIA isn't needed.

JB1985 said:

One thing, would the work lead to a period where the whole of FV is unavailable??? Will AIR get a nice retheme / repaint....

Will the tunnel get done?

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Pigs will have stumbled across the ability of flight before any of those suggestions occur.