Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015

Thank god we didn't get lap bars. OTSRS have certainly saved lives.

EuroSatch said:

With the system overridden, it could have all the sensors in the world, but the entire purpose of the override is to ignore those

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I think you misunderstand the point about the sensors. I'm a non-expert just basing my opinion on what I've read on here, but if I've understood correctly, the way they work is that if a car passes one sensor, but doesn't pass the next one, the system sees it as stuck and stops the ride. There needs to be some override in place so that, on the odd occasion when you have removed a car from between two sensors, the system isn't still sat waiting for the car to pass the second sensor.

However, once you have done an override, that doesn't mean the sensors just stop working completely and allow you to just do anything you want, all the override does is reset the system at that point, and then the sensors come back on and carry on doing what they are designed to do but from a "clean" start - in fact (to my layman's mind) "override" might be a bit of a misnomer, maybe "reset" would be a better term - except I think that's already in use for a more complete system reset from a comment I read earlier.

So anyway what I think @morgano was suggesting is that some additional sensors in the valley would mean that after the override/reset they would have caught the fact that there was still a car stuck there and immediately triggered another stop. An instant trigger like that would have been enough to alert the engineer that there was something more going on than he was aware of and might have prompted him to go and do a manual visual check of the track. (In the hypothetic scenario, as yet nobody knows exactly what happened!)

Putting any ride into manual mode will completely override any safety features and alerts from sensors etc within blocks. The sensors only apply when in full automatic mode

EuroSatch said:

Putting any ride into manual mode will completely override any safety features and alerts from sensors etc within blocks. The sensors only apply when in full automatic mode

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Okay, I didn't understand that. But in that case, perhaps that's something that needs to be reconsidered for the future. Surely certain sensors for fatal or disastrous incidents should be in operation at all times, even during a manual over-ride, at the very least to still give warnings if not to initiate an actual stop. Isn't that something that happened with signals on trainlines, it used to be possible to manually override them but eventually, after so many accidents, automatic systems were introduced that could "override the override" when it was clear that there was a danger?

The safety aspect comes in with that a ride should never be in manual mode when there are riders on the system, whether stationary or otherwise

In fact, I think there is usually a continual alarm when in manual mode to advise caution with every action carries out

I understood any override would only effectively 'reset' the sensors therefore a sensor in the batwing would trigger again as soon as the system was reset. To actually bypass a sensor requires (from my limited knowledge) the system being purposely altered via software, or even in certain cases, bypassing the actual hardwire.

I believe a sensor in the batwing would prevent this occurring again. As the system would show 'valleyed train' rather than 'train hasn't passed the blocks yet.' No one would even contemplate bypassing the 'stalled train' sensor without actually visually checking that there isn't a stalled train. Surely?

Again, I'm not sure on coasters, but there is very rarely an actual ' full manual mode' (how we think of it) on machinery of this size/importance. Especially where people are at risk.

Harvey. said:

I would imagine that they are also taking time to strip the park of all Smiler-related promotional material. They had the logo plastered everywhere and it is a bit of a pointless and constant reminder of the event now, if the ride isn't gonna be up and running any time soon (judging from the forum consensus, next season if ever). It's gonna be a weird year (and possibly beyond?) at Alton, for sure.

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That's a given. It will be quite the task mind for them to strip away The Smiler marketing material across the resort. Marketing will have to also remove it off promotional materials for the foreseeable future.

Given the scale of this incident there's no way it will open again next year. Depending how lengthy the investigation takes and what measures need to be taken afterwards I can see The Smiler opening between August - October 2016.

It will indeed be a very weird year and possibly beyond at Alton, for the managers, the staff, the visitors and even us enthusiasts. I know The Smiler was never without its problems although for me I never saw this coming, The Smiler was the last ride I'd expect to have something this major occur.

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It will be interesting to see if they rebrand The Smiler. In some way I doubt they will, they are Alton Towers, and guests will probably go on the ride regardless (I know I would). Although having the name The Smiler and the whole brand behind it after something like this seems quite dark.

Aside from sensors surly the track being reworked will ensure that it's more unlikely for a car to stall in future? It's no secret trains have stalled multiple times so would a reworked track resolve that issue to some extent? Not that it's the main cause, or will be the main solution, although it could help for that extra level of safety.

Manual mode would override all safety systems. A car can be sent with restraints open with the simple press of a button in manual mode

Rob said:

Where are these rumours coming from? The lastest we have on the injuries are as follows:

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The Metro has reported one of the guests losing a leg. Although The Metro do like to make things up... they're about as reliable as my pet cat.

morgano said:

Unfortunately it is. The ride still requires and override. For example when the ride valleys, they close it and lift it off the track with a crane. The ride will never start unless it's reset. There has to be a way to reset it and unfortunately that still means human interaction. However it's poor design, a few more sensors on the spot of the valley could eliminate this issue entirely.

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micksalt said:

I disagree, if the extra sensor was a presence detector in the batwing element, hard-wired to a braking system just beyond the lift hill crest (or to a very short chain section at the crest), and beyond the control of even the engineer's override key, this wouldn't happen. There would be no legitimate reason for an engineer to require an override for this function either, the system is reset by removing the offending train.

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You're both correct in what you say, however this would be difficult to implement and makes processes harder because you would have multiple systems that could potentially contradict each other. If only because for it to work correctly you would need to have your extra sensors at every possible place the train could potentially stop. I know it's well known for the ride to stall where it stalled yesterday, but a wheel issue (or similar) could cause it to stall almost anywhere - unlikely, but possible.

The block system is tried and tested and works fine, it sounds like it worked yesterday, but something caused the train to move off the lift when it shouldn't have done. With the 'extra sensor', the train could stop elsewhere and the system show as clear.

Block in. Block out. That needs to be the nature of the control.

Rick said:

You're both correct in what you say, however this would be difficult to implement and makes processes harder because you would have multiple systems that could potentially contradict each other. If only because for it to work correctly you would need to have your extra sensors at every possible place the train could potentially stop. I know it's well known for the ride to stall where it stalled yesterday, but a wheel issue (or similar) could cause it to stall almost anywhere - unlikely, but possible.

The block system is tried and tested and works fine, it sounds like it worked yesterday, but something caused the train to move off the lift when it shouldn't have done. With the 'extra sensor', the train could stop elsewhere and the system show as clear.

Block in. Block out. That needs to be the nature of the control.

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I agree, and that's why I believe that as ever, the simplest solution is the best, before any override have 2/3 confirmation points from which all of the ride is visible, if all ops give all clear after visual check, override.

Read the last two points on this picture by the daily fail....I just don't understand how anyone could publish this...Particularly point number 3, I mean really?!

From my understanding there are 2 manual modes manual block which means the trains have to be advanced by the op (like when the get dispatched from the station it needs someone to press a button) but the safety systems are still active (I've been on it twice when my train has done the lap in this mode (it got stuck at the bottom of lift 1) and the there is full manual which can only be used when there are no guests on the ride and is used for maintenance reason, if any of you have No limits 2 have a play with the different modes.

Not every coaster is like NoLimits. They normally have a bypass and then maintenance mode. Maintenance is normally used to garage trains and do additional functions. If the ride was getting constant errors, it would be in bypass.

I don't know exactly how the ride works, but that's how most work

On the radio on my drive home was the rescue supervisor speaking. He said that the man and woman in the front carriage were worst injured, naturally, and that the man had facial and severe leg injuries, and the girl next to him had serious open leg injuries. He said the impact had caused the metal rail at the front of the car to crush inwards and basically, into their legs.

He praised the other riders for being calm and for their patience as they worked to get those most injured out first. He said that other rides had some whiplash, shock and chest complaints which would be caused by the restraints and the sudden stop.

Was thinking.... with regards H&S law in the UK, if they find that an engineer had sent the train around, bypassing the safety system, would it be Alton Towers who would be liable, or the engineer himself (or herself). I know with some H&S laws you personally can be held liable......

It all depends on the events leading up the trains release

^ Generically, it depends more on whether the individual was following the procedures of the business or if they were acting against the policy of the company in some way.

And the first results on YouTube for "coaster" are: