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Nemesis Sub-Terra: "Ongoing Maintenance"

I think the reality is that a lot of us are members of an Alton Towers based discussion forum because it's the best park we have here in the UK (and even that has become debatable in recent years, I feel, with the resurgence of Blackpool Pleasure Beach). Others are members here more because it's a well established and friendly community, rather than out of any real allegiance to the park.

Alton Towers isn't a terrible theme park nowadays, but you'd struggle to argue that it's a well-run one. What winds up a lot of the long term members is almost certainly the lost potential of the place, which had a real buzz about it throughout the 1990s and was a leading attraction in Europe (any younger members who haven't already familiarised yourselves with Themes, Dreams & Scream Machines or The Magic Factory, I would strongly recommend them to give you a feel for the place in its heyday). Nowadays there seems to be an attitude of doing 'just enough' with the place to continue to attract customers, with an intensive profit maximisation strategy once they arrive on-site. This is frustrating. That isn't how it was once done and isn't how it's done at Europe's leading attractions; Europa Park, Phantasialand, Liseberg etc.

That being said, I actually found Nemesis: Sub Terra to be, in concept at least, a return towards the style of ride that was favourable in that era, and which should be encouraged. An experience of the same vein as the Haunted House and, more notably, of Hex. The execution, unfortunately, wasn't as good... the aesthetic of the attraction, combined with the bizarre incorporation of live actors, and technical glitches meant that Sub Terra has become something of a confused mess. It doesn't know its target audience, the story isn't entirely coherent, and the marketing was wide of the mark. But the concept was good and for that reason I retain a soft spot for it; experiences is what Alton Towers should be all about, not generic steel structures like Rita and Spinball. Hopefully it will re-open next season with alterations which make it more reliable, coherent and family-orientated.
 
Although i'm not the biggest extreme coaster fan, I love going to Towers. Yes, it's a little worn in places and needs some TLC to say the least in areas such as Dark Forest and The Flume, but I can also see past this and remember my visits over the decades from before Corkscrew.

I now go there with my own family (and will always visit Towers more than any other park due to location). I love seeing the expressions on my kids faces - and have seen my son especially grow into a real coaster and thrill seeker in the last three years we've had the Merlin Passes. Kids don't notice the bad things normally, just want to do another ride.

Sub terra being SBNO is not good, but Merlin are understandably going to be cautious. I'm sort of hoping this season will prove a turning point for AT and things will improve, but it won't change my memories either :)
 
JB1985 said:
With respect...and I mean this....there are some long standing enthusiast's on here who remember the park as it was. The feeling you got when you first saw nemesis in 1994 was amazing, same for oblivion...to even compare sub terra and the park now to this is a joke. Every member of the forum is a valid member who contributes to a great community that I have been away from for a while but please ....drop the attitude given in some of your posts.
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Sub-Terra is and never was on the same scale of Nemesis or Oblivion. I did not visit the park in the 1990s so I cannot comment on the feel of the park back then and I know for sure that the park is a shadow of its former self. But Sub-Terra is actually a decent ride and a decent concept. It was shockingly bad when it first opened but after all of the modifications that they made it became a dark ride with a solid story, pretty good theming and it flowed well. Sure nothing to write home about but a nice addition to the park.

:)
 
JB1985 said:
The feeling you got when you first saw nemesis in 1994 was amazing, same for oblivion...to even compare sub terra and the park now to this is a joke.
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That's because Nemesis and Oblivion were hugely expensive rollercoasters designed to be flagships for the park, and Sub Terra is a small dark ride built to compliment it and fill space that was previously a pay-to-play and before that home to a pretty standard flat ride. Bit of a weird comparison to make.

The park in general today compared to say 1998 yeah, but comparing Sub Terra to Nemesis and Oblivion, especially when since Sub Terra they've built a ride that's supposed to be compared to Nemesis and Oblivion?
 
I think the comparison is the state of the park from the 90's to now, rather than ride to ride.
 
I really hate the exterior of Sub-Terra because it is so lazy and unimaginative and I did not enjoy being shouted at by staff members in costume whilst watching those naff crab videos.

Apart from that though I enjoyed the entire attraction (modified version) from start to finish and found it to be one of the (sadly very few) highlights of my last visit. The Nemesis egg is captivating and I just loved the anticipation of the drop and the urgency to get out when everything goes wrong with the monster escaping. The lifts and their effects I really liked as well and the bit at the end with the actors.

It's not popular with the public frankly because to passers by it looks like a load of rubbish - a big cheap tin shed with shipping containers plonked in front and a cardboard cut-out sign held up by scaffolding. The Phalanx vehicle is the only interesting exterior theming....Merlin Studios TRY HARDER for god's sake.

It might not be saying much when I say it's the best attraction that's ever occupied that site and it's definitely no Hex or Haunted House but it's a good little filler ride that deserves to be open even if minus actors. A real loss to the line-up IMO especially in this era of disappearing flats.
 
Leah said:
I have noticed that nemesis sub terra has been closed for "ongoing maintenance" for several weeks. Must be quite significant.

it was also closed for a few weeks around the time of the smiler crash for changes to the restaints.

discuss
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I would like to see it reopen
But to be honest if its replaced with a flat ride I will be disappointed would it not be nice if they could have a re-think about the ride .
 
The naff crab video?

Omg! The videos were amazing! What a lot of people are forgetting is that Nemesis was created by John Wardley who worked on a lot of Hammer Horror films. The crab was amazing.
 
After the lift up to the surface ... You walked out and that was it over. It was pretty poor. But then the second time I went on it not knowing there had been any modifications it was so good.
 
Leah said:
What was the ride like before the modifications? What was different?
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The time you spent in the main chamber previously was over very quickly. You literally went in, sat down, egg breaks, you drop, you go up, you're out, then you got through the lifts and walked out into... nothing, that's it and you're pretty much in broad daylight. The shipping container that you exit from was never there before, the air cannons obviously weren't there (as they were installed inside the new shipping container), smoke effects weren't in the lift, there was far less smoke in the main chamber, audio was quieter, lighting wasn't as good and there was less of it (the bottom of the chamber when you dropped was pretty much pitch black), there was less audio too (like the dripping water in the cave tunnel) and the chamber didn't have any surround sound like it does now. Overall they added a lot of new stuff, utilized what they had already, and the experience was made longer. It was really over in a flash originally.

Towers pushed through for Merlin Studios to come in and fix Sub-Terra, and they did a pretty good job really. What's there now is far better than the original ride.

CoasterCrazyChris said:
It's not popular with the public frankly because to passers by it looks like a load of rubbish - a big cheap tin shed with shipping containers plonked in front and a cardboard cut-out sign held up by scaffolding. The Phalanx vehicle is the only interesting exterior theming....Merlin Studios TRY HARDER for god's sake.
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I think you're spot on there. It does look crap and very uninviting from the outside, doesn't exactly draw you in like Hex or Duel's exteriors do for example.
 
I wonder if merlin studios is in upgrading theming to allow operation with no actors
 
Ash123uk said:
I think the comparison is the state of the park from the 90's to now, rather than ride to ride.
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Indeed you are correct....the park to me doesn't feel like a welcoming place anymore .....it feels like it is just geared up to take your money.
 
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Close it. Bomb it. Set fire to it (odds available in the Tavern). Get rid.

It HAD the potential to be amazing, it really, really did. But it was done in such a crap stunt effort that it failed on all accounts.

The exterior had some great videos (I loved them), the air vents were a subtle but good touch, the stag a nice nod to the original story. Then you got a generic merlin corrugated metal building, some shipping containers and a few satellite dishes slapped around - original it was not.

So you queue, in what was at least not a cattle pen. Then you meet the staff, who ruin the story. You are allegedly invited to meet something. Why are 18 year old, minimum wage, ride hosts (not actors), pretending to be something they aren't. It was AWFUL. It wasn't funny, they never looked remotely military, and ruined the pre-story. Clearly someone thought this was hilarious. They were a tail.

So then you get in the lift. That was ok. Then the tunnel, also ok. Not groundbreaking but did its job.

The chamber... was ok. Again the staff could ruin it. They clearly didn't get the memo, its meant to be good until it goes bad. They could have all played it so well, smiles, dry humour, wit, subtle with a sinister smile. Guests know its going to go bad, so use that overly sweet false niceness to make it creepy.

Then the 'show' it would have been nice to have it take more than 5 seconds for the egg to hatch, but I get throughput is an issue.

Drop, eggs, broken kidneys etc etc. Back to top.

THIS IS WHEN THE STAFF NEED TO BE WILD
Screaming to get out, pointing, in faces, its an emergency! Not just 'raise your arms, the exit is there....'.

The lifts were clever, had the urgency been pushed it would have been better.

The shipping containers.
Clearly Merlin won't (lets not say they can't afford it) pay for staff year round. So there needs to be something, animatronics, even the inflatable walls from the old mazes, just something to finish on a high. Better than walking through an empty maze with the odd puff of air.

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Please note I've used past tense throughout. I don't expect ride will return. Because it needs investment and care. Merlin don't do either.
 
Sorry, i have to ask this.

I'm a lot younger than most people on here, and didn't visit towers until 2010. What's the difference between the park then and now. I've been thinking for ages about this, unable to see what's wrong with the park, having never seen better. Then i remembered one thing, nemesis sub terra. I like the ride, but that's not the point. The point is the horrendous shipping container that its housed in. Its so... Merlin. You have a good quality ride, solid storyline, enough of a budget for decent theming... Why put it in a shipping container. It all reminded me of the classic "it will do" attitude of merlin. Its everywhere, from the addition of new rides, to the upkeep of the old ones.

edit: just read through and realised that I've answered the question myself...
 
Well yeah you did answer your own question, but Im willing to elaborate a tad, while fully accepting Im going off topic (hark at me, naughty bugger).

2007 is the pivotal year, when M£rlin got their hands on the park, however the 2 years (I think before) were under DIC (and investment group). So lets play with 2005 as our starting figure for the downturn.

So before 2005, your major investments had always been coasters: Nemesis, Oblivion, Air being your more recent examples. Huge, high quality coasters, normally themed excessively (well Air never got the full theme) but they involved HUGE landscape changes, had stories and essentially ended with massive area wide re-themes. They were normally followed the season after by decent flat rides: Ripsaw, Submission.

Then heres 2005... Rita: Queen of Speed. A ride initially famed for its obscure name - Oh HELLO MARKETING - this won't be the last time they are more important than a ride.
The ride is slapped in the middle of the pre-existing UG Land, which was a decent themed area. It genuinely rips through the middle of the area. Poorly placed, didn't fit the theme, had marketing lies: 0-100 in 2.5 seconds - they never said it was MPH, it was marketing bullcrap.

Hello 2006 Charlie and the Chocolate Factory - it had an IP, it was utilising new technology, it was replacing an attraction losing popularity. It can't fail. Can it?
Oh flat theming, no factory gates as promised, green corrugated metal, not even finished on opening day. And its got worse since then.

2007 - Theres Something in the Dungheap. No comment.

2008 - Mutiny Bay! Now heres when Merlin tried to push they can do this. They added a really good sea life, but the rest of the area was essentially unchanged, a few flags doesn't make an area. Battle Galleons arrived, easily the best themed ride Merlin have done - aside from the fact, its a ridiculously wet water ride, in Staffordshire, UK - not known for its warm weather.

2009 - I think was Wobble World - some inflatables. Nice investment.

2010 - Thirteen replaces Corkscrew the iconic ride that pushed Alton Towers into its Theme Park infancy. It was labelled an SW building hopes up, Marketing (HI AGAIN) were full of it, the most psychologically challenging ride in THE WORLD! You'd have to sign a waiver to say you were fit to ride.
Oh my goodness this was going to be REVOLUTIONARY. And it was going to Retheme UG Land into Dark Forrest, hopes were high Rita would finally fir, we'd get new units and it was going to utilise the lush woodland around the area.
We got nothing more than a half arsed roller skater coaster with a track drop, its slow and the theming poor. The area didn't change, even Ritas horrid cattle pen remained. Just grey paint slapped EVERYWHERE.

2011 - Nothing aside from Submission being replaced by some grass.

2012 - Sub Terra - please see my previous post. NOW CLOSED.

2013 - The Smiler - cement city, gimmick ride (HI MARKETING) had a half arsed story, not really utilised. This hasn't ended well either.

2014 - cbeebies - has gone well but mainly because the BBC won't have their name attached to any old rubbish.

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Its a grim read.
 
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