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Fireworks 2017

Rick said:
Part of the problem with Fireworks is Scarefest. Scarefest and the Fireworks compete with each other and that causes a few issues.

Less so in the enthusiast community but if you take a wider view, the events are too close together to do both. Not only from a "Again?! We've just been to Alton Towers a few weeks ago" point of view, but also from a cost point of view for the average guest.

Last year was the first time in ages I had gone to fireworks, I don't need to go all the way out to the park twice in a couple of weeks, it's too much of a good thing, for me.

This has led to a fairly healthy number of passholders attending fireworks which I think is part the reason for this change. With only two nights, you need to ensure you have as much capacity as you can.
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Indeed. The proximity of each event to the other is a major problem. The fact that the park is open for 33 to 34 weeks per year, yet events are crammed entirely into the last 4. It's so off-kilter.

Most parks work to create events staggered through the season: in particular using the summer period of June/July/August to push guest volume through an event which is designed to get people in. Alton Towers won't take that risk because they will say 'guest numbers are too low, we haven't the budget' - yet in fact, an event could go some way to rectifying that issue. Especially if it was advertised properly.

The Fireworks certainly should be 3 nights, there's no question of that - but I flatly disagree with Pete that the Alton Towers displays are getting worse year-on-year. They're simply different each year - some years they are fantastic, others less so - but that has been the case since they began.

:)
 
Would love to see a Scarefest/Fireworks overlap, I remember going to the Halloween event and watching fireworks at the same time as a kid, was great for those like my family that only managed one visit a year due to travel and costs.

I loved Towers attempts at multiple events in 2006/07, Chocolate Towers in 2006 was fantastic (less so in its second attempt in 2007 - aside from the Rabbit Warren maze). The Great British Bucket and Space event was also a great try at enticing people in during the summer.

It's a shame that they cannot experiment and try more events once again, or even try a Scarefest/Fireworks overlap one year.

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AstroDan said:
Pete - there were well over 25k last year on the Saturday.

The £5 charge and premium online rates this year are designed to ensure the park copes, after the problems last year.

The budget per show has not reduced.

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AstroDan said:
Indeed. The proximity of each event to the other is a major problem. The fact that the park is open for 33 to 34 weeks per year, yet events are crammed entirely into the last 4. It's so off-kilter.

Most parks work to create events staggered through the season: in particular using the summer period of June/July/August to push guest volume through an event which is designed to get people in. Alton Towers won't take that risk because they will say 'guest numbers are too low, we haven't the budget' - yet in fact, an event could go some way to rectifying that issue. Especially if it was advertised properly.

The Fireworks certainly should be 3 nights, there's no question of that - but I flatly disagree with Pete that the Alton Towers displays are getting worse year-on-year. They're simply different each year - some years they are fantastic, others less so - but that has been the case since they began.

:)
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Dude, 25k people on Saturday is ok. Sure. But my point is the event overall isn't pulling in enough numbers. It wasn't uncommon for Firework Spectacular to draw in 80k - 100k crowds over the course of the event. They simply can't fill 3 nights worth of fireworks now. So ok, 25k on Saturday and an absolute shambles it turned out to be has put many people off, combined with a mediocre show isn't gonna make for a sell out this year. The budget (which has been cut back since 2012) is simply too small to stretch out a 23-25 minute show, they need to either pump some more money in OR condense the show down to 15 minutes. 2016 had LONG pauses between firework sequences, and then each sequence was simply to sparse especially with aerial shells. Anyway, maybe Sunday will pull in another 15-20k. Not really a great deal in total for the event is it? The numbers are dwindling no matter how you try to spin it.

And, worth pointing out is that I've seen the park busier than that Saturday last year, probably in the 30k region, and it was much better organised.

Another problem they've got now is equipment hire and bulk purchasing - 2 shows out of the budget gives them less bang for their buck, literally. Take into account all of the other stuff besides fireworks that they bring in for it - lighting, cabling, generators, lasers, PA system, crewing, rigging.

If you want to see a real firework event then go to Catton Hall on 2nd September - 4 displays through the night, all bigger than Towers and even Jubilee fire there too! Costs less than Towers, is much better organised, and you can actually sit on the lawns to watch (nobody stands). Bring beer and a picnic, it's amazing.
 
PeteB said:
If you want to see a real firework event then go to Catton Hall on 2nd September - 4 displays through the night, all bigger than Towers and even Jubilee fire there too! Costs less than Towers, is much better organised, and you can actually sit on the lawns to watch (nobody stands). Bring beer and a picnic, it's amazing.
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Having been to Catton Hall and Alton Towers almost every year for several years I will slightly disagree with you. They are both great displays of fireworks and Jubilee definitely put on a perfectly synchronised musical fireworks show at AT and FoF. AT is a different show in that it also uses light, lasers, smoke, LED screens and/or live actors to put on the show and to tell a story. The price is quite similar AT (with a 2for1, or pre-booking etc) is £25-30, the Catton Hall shows are £25 for adults. But at AT I get a days worth of rides/shows followed by 20 minutes of fireworks, at Festival of Fireworks I get almost an hour of fireworks, so for me both offer a good value, one as an evening of entertainment and the other a whole day. You also mention the picnic element, again they are different days out. at AT I spend all day riding, get something to eat and then arrive on the lawn at 6:45 to stand and watch the show, then at 7:30 I go off to ride more rides, at FoF its a much more relaxed evening, no riding, just chilling and drinking as you say.
 
PeteB said:
The budget (which has been cut back since 2012) is simply too small to stretch out a 23-25 minute show, they need to either pump some more money in OR condense the show down to 15 minutes.
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I'm sorry, you saw Alton's 2013 fireworks right? considered by many to be the best show of the new era of Towers Fireworks.

Do you even know what 25k people looks like at Alton? :rolleyes:

I can't be arsed to quote the rest of your ill-informed rubbish, Alton should remain at 3 nights, it's a cop out to say they're cost saving, it's just greed, that's all it is. It's simple logic, they remove Friday night last year, Saturday hits capacity and they have to close the gates = disappointed guests and guest satisfaction has been on the bottom of Alton's pile of things for years now.
 
Spike said:
I'm sorry, you saw Alton's 2013 fireworks right? considered by many to be the best show of the new era of Towers Fireworks.
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Yep. It was a decent show. Not as heavy on pyro as 2011 and 2012 however. Also considered by many to be too heavily branded (the mere mention of "resort, resort, resort... our rides are amazing... resort, resort, resort" every 2 minutes). I feel a huge chunk of money was wasted on the 3 scaffold towers which served no purpose other than stringing up some waterfall gerbs for the end of the display. They also had a crap PA system that year which looked (and sounded) like home hifi equipment from the 1980's.

I also dislike how every show from 2010 onwards has had to end with ITHOTMK. Every year. It's become predicatable and boring, doesn't fit with the themes they go for, and is just another excuse for the marketing department to water down a show with their crap branding.

Spike said:
Do you even know what 25k people looks like at Alton? :rolleyes:
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Yes actually. Since I've done every firework event since 1996 I know what busy days look like. Can you say the same?

Spike said:
I can't be arsed to quote the rest of your ill-informed rubbish.
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Well since I work in the fireworks and events industry, and got to know most of the people who've worked at the Towers events over the last 20 years, i'd say my ill-informed rubbish is more accurate that your ill-informed rubbish. ;)

We'll see what happens with the show this year, but I'm confident come November 6th, I'll be able to say "told you so". :)
 
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Fireworks will be quieter this year.

On purpose.

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AstroDan said:
Fireworks will be quieter this year.

On purpose.
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Oh come on, Dan. On purpose? So whats the "grand plan" for them deliberately makeing a less popular event?

Robert Jones said:
Indeed!

Good job the rockets never land anywhere near their newly built bit of kindling :cool: We don't want another boathouse incident ;)
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Rockets aren't used in professional displays. We have software called Shellcalc which calculates the blast radius of any given aerial shell used in a display. It factors in everything including wind. The SW8 construction is well beyond the bounds of any aerial shell allowed to be used on the Alton Towers firing site.

I can't see this being a geniune excuse for a smaller display. Probably just a cover-up for another slashed budget.
 
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PeteB my response was a little tongue in cheek.

However I appreciate this is your area of expertise and a little bit of insight into what goes on is always appreciated :)
 
Robert Jones said:
PeteB my response was a little tongue in cheek.

However I appreciate this is your area of expertise and a little bit of insight into what goes on is always appreciated :)
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Yeah I know man, it's all good. :)

You raised a good point though about the SW8 site which made me think.

The park simply isn't honest enough to come out and say "look, we're facing difficult times after what's happened so we're scaling back our event a little". Instead they'll just come out with lame excuses.
 
PeteB said:
Yeah I know man, it's all good. :)

You raised a good point though about the SW8 site which made me think.

The park simply isn't honest enough to come out and say "look, we're facing difficult times after what's happened so we're scaling back our event a little". Instead they'll just come out with lame excuses.
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The park don't come out with anything. They just advertise every year's display the same regardless, which isn't hugely representative if you visited in 2011 and then visited last year for example. But I guess that's the same in all areas :(
 
PeteB said:
Oh come on, Dan. On purpose? So whats the "grand plan" for them deliberately makeing a less popular event?
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1. Make guests who are visiting spend more on their entry price.

Overall take is higher than 2016, but guest experience is better.
 
And ending the show with ITHOTMK has become predictable but in a good way. It sorta remind me that I'm "home". Following the adverts in the 1990s it became the theme song of the park and for me that's a very good thing, keeping a repeated signature theme adds to the brand, in the same way that the logo hasn't changed significantly in 20-25 years.
 
PeteB said:
Well since I work in the fireworks and events industry, and got to know most of the people who've worked at the Towers events over the last 20 years, I'd say my ill-informed rubbish is more accurate that your ill-informed rubbish. ;)
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Pete, you've always said you're 'in the know' and you work here, work there. You're no better than the people we get on here "My mate's Dad works at Towers and he said that they're building a 300ft 4D coaster" Do you actually get a wage or do you volunteer during the busy season and class yourself as 'in the industry'?

Whilst in no way an expert I have been into pyrotechnics since I was young, even looked into becoming a volunteer in the industry until I realise the cost involved and that I'm more interested in the choreography side of fireworks than actually working on firing sites etc. I've messed around with Finale Fireworks a little but at my time of life I'd have to devote a lot of time to mastering the art. I've been lucky enough to be on some firing sites before and a tour of Kimbleton Fireworks so I understand costs when it comes to displays etc as I had the opportunity to ask a lot of questions.

PeteB said:
We'll see what happens with the show this year, but I'm confident come November 6th, I'll be able to say "told you so". :)
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Pete, have you ever been able to utter those lines before, despite your constant 'in house knowledge' on many things? Ever heard of the Dunning-Kruger effect? :rolleyes:
 
PeteB said:
The park simply isn't honest enough to come out and say "look, we're facing difficult times after what's happened so we're scaling back our event a little". Instead they'll just come out with lame excuses.
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Why would any major park do that? It's a Fireworks Spectacular, not a community fundraiser.
 
At the end of the day, people have different expectations on what a good firework event should be like.

The same goes for businesses.

Take a well know leading tyre and exhaust company. This is a true story that only happens to me this month. I took my car in for some repairs and they then did a full examination of my car to tell me that my brakes and tyres are completely useless and needed replacing.

Without having the repairs carried out, the next day my car was booked in for it's MOT where I was told that my tyres and brakes were fine and had many miles left in them.

In other words my car tyres and brakes were good enough for the MOT (and were legal) and didn't needed doing, but the tyre and exhaust company had set a higher bar saying that my car brakes and tyres were no good.

The point that I'm trying to make here, just because you think something is not up to your expectation, doesn't mean that it's no good.

Personally the Alton fireworks always exceed my expectation as well as many of the guest that keep flocking back to watch them year after year.

On another note, it looks like Alton has refunded my pre-booking tickets for the event in full, I had enquire whether I was to pre-book as a MAP holder staying at the resort. I will have to clarify with them that we are still guarantee entry on both days

Roy :)
 
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