Lack of enthusiasm/optimism for Alton Towers in recent years?

Matt N said:

I suppose. I was just basing it off the fact that so many members on here see the era from about 1992 to about 2003 as the park's "golden age" where Alton was this idyllic wonderland.

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Indeed, but so many members on the forums were in the prime age bracket to get hooked into the 'magic' at that time. It's impossible to say for sure, but I suspect a 10 year old visiting the park in 2017 feels the same 'magic' as a 10 year visiting the park for their first time in 2017.

Matt N said:

Also, a member on CoasterForce once said something about the opening hours that is very true and links in very well with this statement. They said that the British public treat a day at a theme park rather like a day at work in that they start at about 10 and leave at about 5, so it wouldn't be worth increasing opening hours on non-Scarefest days.

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I think that's true. I think that's a decision the theme park industry made very early on in the UK and its hard to backtrack from it. Plus, our climate doesn't assist with long days.

Rick said:

There are things to be frustrated about at Alton in 2017, but there are a lot of good things too. It's perverse really, the park's biggest fans are its biggest critics. It's like people that don't have a good word to say about their sports team but will follow them until their dying day.

The conversations are very much the same 20 years on. Very much the same.

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I personally would take a 1998 version of Alton Towers back with no hesitation. Lots of live entertainment around the park, including an ice show and outdoor stage. Indoor attractions aplenty (Toyland Tours, 3D cinema), including the Towers being open, flat rides in abundance and pristine gardens. Of course, the coaster selection was a lot more limited, but Alton Towers has always been more than coasters for me. Bearing in mind that in 1998, I was 27 and not seeing the park through child's eyes

Fast forward to the coming 2018 season and other than a few rides on SW8, there is no draw to get me through that dated entrance area. I will go via Sun tickets for SW8, but that will be all.

You see, its a dark day when a life long fan of Alton Towers feels this way and hasn't set foot in it for 2 1/2 years, People could say, "Well he is just a bitter enthusiast hankering for the good old days", which isn't correct by the way. I want to see the park flourish again and I just want to see Merlin putting their parks before profit and shareholders for once. Sadly this will not happen.

However, Merlins problem is when non enthusiasts say this, to which I know many who have stated this over the last few years to me. When the non-enthusiast is bored of the park, that's when the problems start. You see, it's not just me being over picky, non-enthusiasts cannot be bothered either and that's where the park(s) are struggling.

Rick said:

but there are a lot of good things too.

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Apart from SW8 and the restoration of some of the structures in the gardens (which they only do to get planning approval anyway!! ), I would love to know the other good things that Merlin have done to Alton Towers in the past year.

With the big parks of the UK industry becoming increasingly commercial places to visit, despite their older attractions growing more and more decrepit and new investments rarely having a comparable lifespan or appeal, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that the level of enthusiasm/number of enthusiasts in this country is waning. Vampire and Bubbleworks were, back in about 2002/2003, the first rides to truly convince me that elaborate experiences could be had outside of Disneyland and maybe Legoland, now I'd be embarrassed to take a 9 year old through Vampire's queue and station, and I doubt a child would retain such a vivid and strangely startling memory of Gruffalo as mine of Bubbleworks' finale. I'm sure that someone will point out that both rides had already deteriorated to a certain extent by that point, but I guess my point is that as we move further and further from the golden age of investments and risk-taking in the 1990s, and deeper into Merlin's fruitless operations, there's less of a window for inspiration in these parks.

I have great faith in the staff at Alton Towers - they've carried out some impressive work in recent years and they've had to endure all kinds of shake-ups and cut-backs. But whilst such impressive parks like Towers are operated by a parent so intent on bleeding them dry of value on all fronts, a cycle of guest disinterest and operational neglect will emerge.

Great insightful post @PeteA ! I won't reply line by line because we disagree on most things, but -

PeteA said:

Apart from SW8 and the restoration of some of the structures in the gardens (which they only do to get planning approval anyway!! ), I would love to know the other good things that Merlin have done to Alton Towers in the past year.

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In terms of what they have done in the past year, that's not quite what I was driving at (but it's fair to say that the park was vastly better in 2017 than it was in 2016 - with some great special events to boot). My point is that I don't recognise the erosion in the quality of the visit in the same way that you do, I still go to Alton and have a wonderful time which is why I keep going and giving them my hard earned cash.

I very much support your strategy of not going and giving them no money - the power of the consumer is vastly underrated. If it's as bad as you claim and apathy amongst non-enthusiasts is what you suggest, attendance will nosedive and Merlin will be forced to do something about it - but I don't see that to be the case given the crowds I have encountered at the park this season. The recovery seems well underway.

As a side note, what you're doing is so much better than going every weekend, hating every second and posting about it on internet forums. That I applaud.

Rick said:

Great insightful post @PeteA ! I won't reply line by line because we disagree on most things, but -


In terms of what they have done in the past year, that's not quite what I was driving at (but it's fair to say that the park was vastly better in 2017 than it was in 2016 - with some great special events to boot). My point is that I don't recognise the erosion in the quality of the visit in the same way that you do, I still go to Alton and have a wonderful time which is why I keep going and giving them my hard earned cash.

I very much support your strategy of not going and giving them no money - the power of the consumer is vastly underrated. If it's as bad as you claim and apathy amongst non-enthusiasts is what you suggest, attendance will nosedive and Merlin will be forced to do something about it - but I don't see that to be the case given the crowds I have encountered at the park this season. The recovery seems well underway.

As a side note, what you're doing is so much better than going every weekend, hating every second and posting about it on internet forums. That I applaud.

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I agree @Rick. I have a wonderful time every time I go to Towers and while Merlin do minorly cut costs, I do think that some people on here are ready to criticise Merlin whatever they do. Not that that's bad, though. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

Over the last year I’ve been lucky enough to visit Europa Park and Port Aventura. Seeing the potential of how a themepark could be run in terms of theming and entertainment, I’m afraid that my opinion of Merlin has deteriorated. But I guess that’s what happens when you experience a product that is vastly superior, your opinion of the inferior item breaks down. I still admire Alton Towers but it is just so evident when you wander around that the park is lacking the wow factor. When I was younger and saw groups of overseas school kids enjoying the park I used to be full of pride that this was our home park. But now being more worldly and having higher expectations in respect to anything that costs me £30+, I just want to be delighted and fully satisfied by my day out. So what I’m possibly experiencing is a bit of apathy towards Alton Towers now I have hit my early forties, fuelled by a frustration that parks in other European countries can get it right so why can’t we!! A massive statement that Merlin could make would be to bring back Henry Hound, or introduce a similar mascot, and introduce a daily parade with floats. It’s never going happen but it would do so much to bring some fun into the park and revert away so much criticism.

Matt N said:

I agree @Rick. I have a wonderful time every time I go to Towers and while Merlin do minorly cut costs, I do think that some people on here are ready to criticise Merlin whatever they do. Not that that's bad, though. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

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Merlin deserve the criticism, for they have only overseen a steady reduction in offering at their theme parks over recent years. We have seen substantial job losses, outsourcing of a variety of departments, poor choices of ride additions, removal of park entertainment, reductions in the number of rides, the homogenisation of food and beverage and subsequent reductions in quality, reductions in park opening hours and more. Alton Towers theme park is far less multi-faceted today than it was 10, 20 or even 30 years ago. And so are many of their other RTPs - both here and abroad.

I have absolutely no patience for the company who, I believe, blame everyone but themselves when it comes to the falling guest numbers in their resort theme parks division. They claim their parks get better and better. Whatever. Pack of lies.

This is not to say that Alton Towers wasn't better in 2017 than 2016. Indeed it was better. But that is small change when you look at the larger picture.

You say 'minorly' cut costs. I don't. The cuts that have been placed on Alton Towers over the past 5 years are significant.

The arguments that I read about how British people 'don't want long days out' or 'want shows' or whatever - garbage. Garbage, much like the research that made Alton Towers build Battle Galleons and Nemesis Sub Terra.

The only reason Alton Towers still gets away with the continuing slide into mediocrity is that they continue to invest in headline coasters every few years. If you look objectively at the complete package the park offers these days compared to the top tier European parks it's clear that Towers just isn't the same league any more,10-20 years ago it was easily on a par with or better than any of the likes of Europa Park, Phantasialand, Efteling or Port Aventura. There was a much more rounded ride line up, a range of entertainment and shows, events and more.

The park has been stripped back to the bare bones. An incredibly sparse ride line up, with only one or two rides of note below the headline coasters, no entertainment or shows outside of Cbeebies land and no events until the last month of the season. Every year we anticipate and get further operational cuts, usually with the park trying out a range of them to see which get the fewest complaints - late opening on more rides, fewer staff on rides, shorter hours, more closed outlets. The cuts are clear to see.

What does everyone think the ultimatum will be? Or a breaking point? Or will things over time get better?

AstroDan said:

Merlin deserve the criticism, for they have only overseen a steady reduction in offering at their theme parks over recent years. We have seen substantial job losses, outsourcing of a variety of departments, poor choices of ride additions, removal of park entertainment, reductions in the number of rides, the homogenisation of food and beverage and subsequent reductions in quality, reductions in park opening hours and more. Alton Towers theme park is far less multi-faceted today than it was 10, 20 or even 30 years ago. And so are many of their other RTPs - both here and abroad.

I have absolutely no patience for the company who, I believe, blame everyone but themselves when it comes to the falling guest numbers in their resort theme parks division. They claim their parks get better and better. Whatever. Pack of lies.

This is not to say that Alton Towers wasn't better in 2017 than 2016. Indeed it was better. But that is small change when you look at the larger picture.

You say 'minorly' cut costs. I don't. The cuts that have been placed on Alton Towers over the past 5 years are significant.

The arguments that I read about how British people 'don't want long days out' or 'want shows' or whatever - garbage. Garbage, much like the research that made Alton Towers build Battle Galleons and Nemesis Sub Terra.

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I openly admit that the cuts to ride lineup and show lineup are significant. I also agree that they should take the blame for their lower visitor numbers. But the point I'm trying to get across is that I still adore Alton, no matter what happens.

Matt N said:

I openly admit that the cuts to ride lineup and show lineup are significant. I also agree that they should take the blame for their lower visitor numbers. But the point I'm trying to get across is that I still adore Alton, no matter what happens.

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Well, it's nice to hear you feel like that, and up until recently, I'd have said the same. I've been visiting the park for twenty-five years. It's part of my identity, if you will. I stayed 'loyal' through the tepid DIC years of the mid-00s, that saw whole areas of the park fenced off, and was taking short breaks at the park until just a few years back, even if nothing aside from The Smiler really piqued my interest for a long time. But I've stopped visting, because I think the park has become a depressing shambles, and anything impressive is either a premium, or surface level sheen. I think SW8 looks good, but already, that level of investment is casting the rest of the park in a worse light.

I am not a die-hard enthusiast these days, and the curtain was lifted on the 'magic' a long time ago. I have been a regular on forums since 1998, so am pretty familiar with the cycles of enthusiasm and critique that Rick has highlighted. I want to love, hell, even like the park. But they have essentially lost a lifelong fan, pass holder and regular customer. And now, the results from the park, and Merlin's treatment of their theme park division as a whole, make for grim reading for visitors, shareholders and the media alike. The problems at Alton Towers are not just present in the eyes of the enthusiast community. They are surviving on their brand and previous reputation alone, but unless there are serious changes, things are only going to get worse.

WickerManiac said:

What does everyone think the ultimatum will be? Or a breaking point? Or will things over time get better?

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When older rides begin to be closed down. Chessington had this - as soon as the original theming there had been neglected to the point of being hazardous, and Merlin (and to an extent, Tussauds) proved that they weren't willing to invest in proper restoration or reworking, the park's reputation among enthusiasts plummeted, because everything great that the park had been known for was in fact decades old and on the brink of ruin.

Towers is a slightly different scenario, in that some time, effort and money is being put into maintaining older rides by request of the park crew themselves, not to mention that rides like Nemesis and Oblivion could survive reasonably well on their basic thrills alone (not saying that I'd appreciate this scenario) and some level of thought and investment is going into new rides (The Smiler, hopefully SW8). But however far into the future it is, the day when they begin closing the high-quality investments of the past, e.g. Oblivion, Hex, the Katanga rides, eventually Nemesis, even Duel as a vague reminder of the park's great dark ride days, that's when the park's gradual decline would become most noticeable and that's when both enthusiasts and the GP would really notice how quality has dropped.

Nothing much I can add to this except on the point of "were the 90's really that much better" and I will say yes. You only have to look at the sheer amount of media coverage the park got back then.

Heck, in the early 2000's Sky made a TV series called Park Life about the employees of the park and their daily lives. Kids TV shows, Saturday morning shows, Blue Peter etc would all regularly film or broadcast from the park.

You wouldn't get anything like that now. Media coverage of the park in the last 10-15 years has been extremely sparse to say the least. Hard to say exactly why that is so, maybe lack of interest from the public, probably more to the lack of Disney-esque buzz about the place as it's become just another dodgy amusement park.

PeteB said:

Heck, in the early 2000's Sky made a TV series called Park Life about the employees of the park and their daily lives. Kids TV shows, Saturday morning shows, Blue Peter etc would all regularly film or broadcast from the park.

You wouldn't get anything like that now. Media coverage of the park in the last 10-15 years has been extremely sparse to say the least. Hard to say exactly why that is so, maybe lack of interest from the public, probably more to the lack of Disney-esque buzz about the place as it's become just another dodgy amusement park.

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Eh, Pete, as usual, I can't help but feel you're being a little dramatic here. You're misremembering things. Alton Towers still gets a fair whack of media coverage, it's just that how the public consume media has changed. Television isn't the be all and end all it once was. Admittedly, it got a dose of the wrong kind of coverage in recent years, but while it will take a while for the park to recover from The Smiler accident, it's happening, and I don't think anyone percieves it as "a dodgy amusement park." It's falling short, absolutely, but it's still the market leader.

Alton Towers used to aspire to be a world class theme park.
Now it is content to be a regional theme park.

The thing I can see changing that is BPBs renewed ambition. If Blackpool manages to sustain its current rate of improvement, opens longer hours, offers better food, remain family inclusive and maintains safety... there is hope that the competition will force AT to invest in their own offering to everyones benefit.

The major issue at AT is the short opening hours and the gap in "all the family" rides. CBeebies is good for pre-schoolers (who can also go mid-week, so are a great target); and there are big coasters for thrill seekers... but the offering for the whole family has seen several years of decline.
The new wooden coaster might be the start of a turnaround there: but the signs don't look positive.

@PeteB You wouldn't get media coverage like that now, you're right - but there's a very good reason for that. Theme parks and roller coasters were still a relatively new concept throughout the 90s and early 2000s. Parks were growing in a way that we hadn't seen on these shores for the best part of a decade. Tussauds were building attractions on a scale that was new for regional parks. You can't ride that wave forever, it all becomes a tad routine. The exception was clearly the incident on Smiler, because it was so out of the ordinary - thank goodness.

In the same way, you don't hear about chart battles, new fangled mobile phones that don't have aerials, Netscape vs. IE - the focus of the news shifts to what is news.

They'll still get a boat load of coverage when Wicker Man debuts, there's not a doubt in my mind.

I don't necessarily mean just news coverage. They get that for sure (in small doses) as part of their new ride marketing campaigns, but what about non news related TV appearances?

There has, in the past, been concerts recorded or broadcast from the park. What about that big event back in the 80's/90's where the royal family were there doing something. I can't recall what it was, but that type of thing still goes on today and usually broadcast by the BBC. You'd never see it at Towers now though.

@PeteB I am not sure there are plans to do another It's a Royal Knockout, unless Harry's stag do gets out of hand.

I don't see how hosting such events is the barometer of success. It'd be logistically quite difficult to host something like that now, too and not to mention there are so many places better suited.

Yes, but you know the point I'm getting at. If you look up these things on YouTube or whatever, all of the films, the broadcasts, the TV spots, TV shows, documentaries, the making of certain rides or attractions etc... it's all from a long time ago. There's isn't much from the past 10-15 years.

Maybe dropping filming fees for programs that use the Alton towers name and have some iconic shots in the show. Would give an incentive to show like hollyoaks etc to show the park.

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