2018: Wicker Man - General Discussion - SPOILERS! - Part One

^The crash continues to have a signficant impact, it is still very hard (but not impossible) to get friends to agree to come to Alton Towers as is often percieved as being unsafe.

While short hours and poor food and beverage operations might not encourage repeat visits it does seem that many people just won’t visit once now let alone have the chance to be wowed to come back again.

matthewgcole said:

Not true. 4PM closures, next to zero entertainment, closed rides, derelict areas and wound down operations are killing the park.

I've said this time and time again, the whole crash thing is over stated as an excuse - it's yesterday's news and not even today's chip paper. Very few people who are likely to visit the park actually care about this dead story anymore, they more care about what they're getting in return for their £55.

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Thank god your here Matthewgcole.

MakoMania said:

^The crash continues to have a signficant impact, it is still very hard (but not impossible) to get friends to agree to come to Alton Towers as is often percieved as being unsafe.

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That's like saying, "I'm not travelling by plane, train, car, bike or boat ever again. They could crash, derail or I could get knocked off and killed, or even hit an iceberg and sink.". This ride is perfectly safe.

Ah but Matthew the 4pm ride closures etc come from the lack of visitors and the attitudes the public have about AT these days but I feel myself sidetracking this conversation away from the Wicker Man, so uhhh yeah the Wickerman will be safe and they will keep a closer eye on the blocks?

This ride is perfectly safe.

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Everything has been designed for your comfort, and enjoyment.

The 4Pm closures and butchering of the real family ride lineup are poor decisions made by the parent company of the park. We must remember that THEY were liable for the crash and should be held completely accountable for everything that has happened to the park since (rather than the Billy bullshit excuse of London terrorism and the odd light shower in the English countryside ruining the park, an excuse even the shallow stock market saw through last autumn).

The very idea that would be coaster enthusiasts are held back from visiting the park by an almost 3 year old news story that's long dead is absolutely absurd! Of course it would have SOME impact on the park still, I would be a fool to suggest otherwise, but very few people other than the poor victims, enthusiasts and the odd attention seeking social media muppet even remember the crash.

I'm actually impressed with what I've seen of this ride so far and I hope that it does capture the publics imagination and encourage Merlin that these kind of well themed and well thought out experiences are the way forward - I want Wicker Man to be a success!

But the park in general does not deserve it for aforementioned reasons. Merlin could invest in this park and make it a rip roaring success in no time for a relatively cheap amount of CAPEX and OPEX investment. They choose not to however and anyone who gives them emotionally driven "crash" excuses is encouraging the ride slashing and 4PM closures.

matthewgcole said:

very few people other than the poor victims, enthusiasts and the odd attention seeking social media muppet even remember the crash.

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Nonsense. The crash continues to gain media coverage (Daily Mail uploaded videos about it just today) and is engrained into the minds of many people when thinking about Alton Towers. It was covered non-stop on the national news for weeks, that's unprecedented for most internal affairs stories! It's almost always the first thing people say to me when I mention Alton Towers.

That being said, from what I've seen, Wicker Man is really grabbing the attention of many people which is a positive

The crash still is in the mind, but it is gradually diminishing.

The biggest frustration with WM is that it looks like the best "experience" rollercoaster in the UK. Meanwhile, the park is being butchered in other areas.

ATR is one big juxtaposition!

Out of interest, does Wicker Man feature an ORP? If so, where on the ride is it?

MakoMania said:

Nonsense. The crash continues to gain media coverage (Daily Mail uploaded videos about it just today) and is engrained into the minds of many people when thinking about Alton Towers. It was covered non-stop on the national news for weeks, that's unprecedented for most internal affairs stories! It's almost always the first thing people say to me when I mention Alton Towers.

That being said, from what I've seen, Wicker Man is really grabbing the attention of many people which is a positive

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It was not covered non stop by REPUTABLE national news coverage for weeks at all. After a few BBC, Sky and ITN headlines it was relegated mostly to footnotes of sleazy tabloids that intelligent people read for fun and only thick people take as gospel.

As for the Daily Mail - well, how many Daily Mail readers do you think where actually likely to visit the park? 70 year old, right wing, wealthy, homophobic racists who believe what they read in archaic newspapers don't tend to be Alton Towers target audience.

The fact still remains that people will come for this ride, but may be deterred from returning by the contradictory overall experience of the rest of the park.

matthewgcole said:

It was not covered non stop by REPUTABLE national news coverage for weeks at all. After a few BBC, Sky and ITN headlines it was relegated mostly to footnotes of sleazy tabloids that intelligent people read for fun and only thick people take as gospel.

As for the Daily Mail - well, how many Daily Mail readers do you think where actually likely to visit the park? 70 year old, right wing, wealthy, homophobic racists who believe what they read in archaic newspapers don't tend to be Alton Towers target audience.

The fact still remains that people will come for this ride, but may be deterred from returning by the contradictory overall experience of the rest of the park.

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Okay......

You are most obviously correct, the crash has had no effect on the park.

25% drop in attendance must have been due to the closure of Sub-Terra.



How can common sense be so hard for people to have

Of course the worst accident in the history of the park is going to have an impact on attendance, it's not difficult to understand

I'm not saying it's the only factor, Merlin's poor offerings probably have contributed as well.

MakoMania said:

Okay......

You are most obviously correct, the crash has had no effect on the park.

25% drop in attendance must have been due to the closure of Sub-Terra.

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Please re-read post #5886 where I actually admitted that it did. My argument is, and always has been, that the Smiler crash is used as an over exaggerated excuse to run a shit theme park. I also never mentioned Sub Terra once.

I'm aware this is starting to go a little off topic, but in terms of people visiting the park getting a negative impression, I'm just curious as to why some people here think that so strongly? The park is by far one of the most clean and well looked after in the UK. And combine that with the particularly strong coaster line up, and the large ride offering aimed at small children, and the beautiful landscape and heritage of the park.

My point is, most of the general public who visit the park won't pick up on the things that we as enthusiasts pick up on. Yes, people will still know when a ride is missing eg. Ripsaw, and then again with the original staggered opening times, but as an overall experience, I don't think it's fair to say that most people leave having had a negative experience.

Anywayyyy, Wicker Man anyone?

Thanks!

Rob said:

Anywayyyy, Wicker Man anyone?

Thanks!

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Yay, I'm going to be riding on it a week on Tuesday where hopefully it won't have much of a queue.

I must admit that the Wicker Man project has felt like the five stages of grief.

Firstly, denial that the plans seen were the final product. Then anger that after all these years of waiting for a woodie at the park, THIS was what we were going to get?!?!
Then the bargaining; if only we'd made it more obvious that we wanted a true white-knuckle thriller and maybe this is only a tester before they build a cross-valley woodie...
Then the depression. Damn, we'll just have to wait until SW9 for the next big thrill, not sure I will rush there in 2018.
Then finally acceptance.

I'm at the acceptance stage and am now really looking forward to it. The videos, pics and reviews on Thursday certainly helped.
The rollercoaster version of Hex? I'll take that.

It looks like the most complete 'experience' attraction that the park have ever built and I hope it's phenomenally successful for them.

Hopefully I'll get a few rides in on the 20th.

And that descent from the top of the covered airtime hill to the first interaction through the Wicker Man looks pretty high/deep.

Oh, and the first half of this post was somewhat tongue-in-cheek.

Robert.W said:

My point is, most of the general public who visit the park won't pick up on the things that we as enthusiasts pick up on. Yes, people will still know when a ride is missing eg. Ripsaw, and then again with the original staggered opening times,

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I think the GP are aware of more than a lot of us give them credit for. Maybe not always even fully aware, but at least 'feel' the park isn't what it used to be. Ripsaw and Sub Terra being closed and not being replaced they will definitely take notice of.

I agree that Wickerman is a good investment, and it's a pleasant surprise in an industry with little competition. The rest of the park being neglected and every other issue we've all discussed is another, far more important question entirely. I think the "Merlin Question" is only going to become more important during and after this season. If we're wrong and the visitor numbers don't go up a hell of a lot after this season, it will get very interesting: because I personally don't think the shareholders will buy in to any more excuses when this point is reached. The end of this season will be extremely important and whatever happens, it will have industry wide implications. I think there will be a lot of new topics over it on here at the end of the year at least if this is true

I agree with that @Sauron97. The wording of my comment wasn't the best!

The one thing I don't see is how the rest of the park is being neglected. Sure, some rides have closed, but in general the place doesn't feel as though it has been neglected. The general upkeep of the place isn't bad, at least since TLC began anyway (And TLC is a good thing. Please nobody start complaining about it again)! Neglect is when things are actually falling apart and don't look at least reasonably well presented. I don't think we are in the situation any more, if we ever actually were in the first place.

Obviously that doesn't mean that I don't think the rest of the park needs extra investment, it would be great to see more filler rides in the line up. That's also why I agree with what you say, Sauron, about visitor attendance this season being extremely important — where exactly can we go from here if attendance doesn't increase? As things stand, Alton Towers isn't bad, and is certainly not neglected, but I worry if attendance stays low we could see some things starting to become neglected, reversing all the hard work done by TLC.

Wicker Man is definitely a step in the right direction, so this is why we need to see positive results from it, just to prove to Merlin that providing an all round fantastic quality attraction does work, and that crappy gimmicks and world firsts are not needed to make an attraction successful. If Merlin understand that by cutting the overall quality the final product will require a cheap gimmick to sell it, hopefully Wicker Man will prove to them that providing a quality product without a cheap gimmick will give them a better, much more sustainable, long term return on their investment, so that hopefully we'll see more things of a similar nature as Wicker Man built at not just Alton, but at Merlin's other parks as well.

One week to go!

Just checked the Ride Times site, Wicker Man opens at 10am today, so if anyone is there this weekend - I guess we will be getting to ride

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