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HS2

Discussion on HS2 on Jeremy Vine today

Unfortunately I don't think Andy Burnham is putting up a good argument today
 
So it’s now going to cost 108 billion :eek:
At what point do they say no!
Enough is enough
108 billion just so more people can travel to London faster :confused:
 
bluesonichd said:
108 billion just so more people can travel to London faster :confused:
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That's not what it's about. I get its expensive but it annoys me that people dismiss the project without knowledge of its benefits:
  • Additional express seats which will be essential if we ever want to reduce the price of rail travel (something the Greens and environmentalists wish to do despite generally opposing the project - rail tickets are expensive to control demand)
  • Additional local trains as express services move to HS2 (rail usage continues to increase and parts of the network are at capacity)
  • Journey time improvements not just to London but to Birmingham as well - every saving is welcome for increasing competitiveness of rail against flights
  • Funded by borrowing at a time of historically low interest rates - so it's not a case of "cancel HS2 and use the money elsewhere"
HS2 is just one project out of many that'll be needed if we're serious about reducing our impact on the environment and switching to sustainable forms of transport
 
I agree about updating transport , but when the budget has now doubled and what’s to stop it doubling again. There must be better ways to spend £108 billion :eek:
 
bluesonichd said:
I agree about updating transport , but when the budget has now doubled and what’s to stop it doubling again. There must be better ways to spend £108 billion :eek:
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We could all suggest ways to spend the cash. Personally I think £100bn is not so bad when you consider that it's being spent over 15+ years and we'll be using this infrastructure for many years to come. For comparison the NHS will burn through that in less than a year. Why not invest in both HS2 and local transport. Use the Borders Railway as a case study - we can borrow additional money and/or stop building new roads and get to work!
 
They just need to highlight Germany's light rail infrastructure, ctrl+a, ctrl+c, highlight appropriate areas in England (because the UK probably won't exist by then), ctrl+v
 
rob666 said:
Tax the planes, spend it on the trains, simple.
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Tax the cars would be a better plan.

I would rather see this money spent on improving rail infrastructure than roads and billions has been spent on changing motorways to Smart motorways recently that won't last anywhere near as long as the new railway tracks should.

Many of the complaints about the speed of HS2 being a waste of money fail to see that by moving the long-distance travel to the new tracks it should free up the existing west coast mainline to be able to stop more and run more local and freight services.
 
The cars are taxed, a great deal.
Road fuel is about 75% duty, three quarters of the cost of a litre of fuel goes to central government.
Air fuel is 0% duty. Even the government has said that this is indefensible, especially so as air travel expands rapidly.
Pollution from planes currently runs at about 7% of our total volume of airborne pollutants, at current rates of expansion, that is likely to rise to 25% of all pollutants in the UK by 2050...government figures.
Increase air fuel duties to a comparable level.
Cheap flights are killing the planet, quickly.
Edit...figures on plane pollution altered...(wrong paragraph quote...Oh me and technology).
 
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rob666 said:
The cars are taxed, a great deal.
Road fuel is about 75% duty, three quarters of the cost of a litre of fuel goes to central government.
Air fuel is 0% duty. Even the government has said that this is indefensible, especially so as air travel expands rapidly.
Pollution from planes currently runs at about 20% of our total volume of airborne pollutants, at current rates of expansion, that is likely to rise to 50% of all pollutants in the UK by 2050...government figures.
Increase air fuel duties to a comparable level.
Cheap flights are killing the planet, quickly.
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Yes, agreed on making flights more expensive. Personally I think additional direct taxes on cars isn't the best idea. I'd prefer to see more low emission zones in cities, but charge all cars including electric. This would keep cars out of cities, encourage people to use park and ride or just take the train all the way, while keeping cars affordable for those in rural areas.

I would also stop expanding roads. No more bypasses, extra lanes, tunnels etc. That way, we don't keep making it easier to drive.

Finally we must ensure that all new housing is easily accessible by public transport. Encourage denser housing and reopen or build new railway lines to serve new developments.
 
For me hs2 should be a quick line that runs from Hull to Liverpool. You. Will hit York, Leeds, Huddersfield and Manchester on that route. You can invest in it going up to Newcastle and down to Sheffield. Release the pressure on existing lines and give us better connectivity between the big northern cities.
 
Slugjc said:
For me hs2 should be a quick line that runs from Hull to Liverpool. You. Will hit York, Leeds, Huddersfield and Manchester on that route. You can invest in it going up to Newcastle and down to Sheffield. Release the pressure on existing lines and give us better connectivity between the big northern cities.
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Funny you say that because that's basically what Northern Powerhouse rail is. Though I think it's planned to run at 140-160 mph so not quite the 180-220 mph of full "high speed rail"
 
Northern Powerhouse Rail is a fantasy castle in the clouds that has already had at least three names, possibly four, probably more.
It is planned to open in 2034, oh, but it has already been delayed for a year, so 2035 at the earliest.
It was first formed in my consciousness in my A level geography group as essential for future growth, and national government planners were already on board to make sure it happened quickly, to complement the new M62.
That was in the seventies, so don't hold your breath, as it simply won't happen.
 
That can be solved relatively cheaply, they just need longer trains rather than an entirely new line. A four coach voyager between B'ham and M'cr is pretty rubbish.
 
Local train to Manchester was given an extra carriage, many local commuter parties to celebrate.
One coach...all it took to ease morning congestion for hundreds.
Shame the train is pretty much empty outside rush hour...and there lies the real problem, peak hour station crush.
 
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