Coronavirus

delta79 said:

This is something that worries me. Depending on what material the face covering is made from dictates the level of protection in certain situations.
The force of air changes the protection on lower level coverings.
If the actor can blow out a lighter then shouting though it makes the covering useless at 1metre.

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The lack of understanding of what masks can or cannot do, and their overall effectiveness, is a major concern for me especially as we head into the colder months. Below is the working view of a Merlin property, which believes masks prevent issues from screaming. Clearly guidance on this matter is lacking from government and public health authorities.

One of these is the requirement of wearing a mask whilst experiencing the majority of our rides and attractions. This is in order to prevent the spread of the virus through screaming or shouting whilst on our rides and attractions.

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Boris does another update tomorrow, and one of the many rumours I've seen is him being asked to be explicit on what COVID Secure actually means, especially in the hospitality industry. It's crazy that this is still being asked for 6 months after the pandemic started, and the weekend before likely restrictions are placed upon the industry.

Boris to be explicit on something?

2020 truly would be the year of surprises if he did that.

Swarm Chris said:

The lack of understanding of what masks can or cannot do, and their overall effectiveness, is a major concern for me especially as we head into the colder months. Below is the working view of a Merlin property, which believes masks prevent issues from screaming. Clearly guidance on this matter is lacking from government and public health authorities.

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The UK theme park and amusement association agreed as part of the re-opening guidelines that masks should be worn to lower the risk of screams expelling air further. The government has been leaving a lot of the more specific advice up to other governing bodies and associations to discuss I think.

The statement isn't really wrong, the mask does help prevent droplets travelling further when screaming. It doesn't do it to 100% is the issue, but it is better than no mask at all.

I think common sense needs to prevail over the coming months, and generally, masks are considered a reasonable restriction within this context. I am hoping Johnson will be more specific (for once), but I am hardly expecting the results of an emergency COBRA meeting on the scare industry.

jon81uk said:

The UK theme park and amusement association agreed as part of the re-opening guidelines that masks should be worn to lower the risk of screams expelling air further. The government has been leaving a lot of the more specific advice up to other governing bodies and associations to discuss I think.

The statement isn't really wrong, the mask does help prevent droplets travelling further when screaming. It doesn't do it to 100% is the issue, but it is better than no mask at all.

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My overriding concern on masks is the mistaken belief that you wear one and everyone is safe, which leads to decisions such as having actors scream at people. But I've discussed those specific concerns on the other threads, so I probably shouldn't derail this thread.

3:30pm for commons announcement, 6pm for press conference. The scientific panel at 11am certainly seemed to be setting things up for restrictions, perhaps targeting areas with high cases and high rate of increase.

I’m honestly still absolutely confused about what’s going on, it was last reported that infection rates from the hospitality sector was 4% so now they plan to close the hospitality sector based on evidence from the USA?. Seriously this is really crazy surely you’d look at the infection rate in you’re own country first and see where the worst hit sectors. I still think they are making it up as they go along surely no forward thinking person could make such a bigger problem then what they already have. Jaysus millions of jobs are on hanging by a thread but we choose to do knee jerk reactions and follow advice from the USA seriously this country needs a reset button and quick.

Mr Pearse said:

I’m honestly still absolutely confused about what’s going on, it was last reported that infection rates from the hospitality sector was 4% so now they plan to close the hospitality sector based on evidence from the USA?. Seriously this is really crazy surely you’d look at the infection rate in you’re own country first and see where the worst hit sectors. I still think they are making it up as they go along surely no forward thinking person could make such a bigger problem then what they already have. Jaysus millions of jobs are on hanging by a thread but we choose to do knee jerk reactions and follow advice from the USA seriously this country needs a reset button and quick.

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So what would you close down to try and stem rising numbers of cases?

jon81uk said:

So what would you close down to try and stem rising numbers of cases?

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I have absolutely not a clue, considering the biggest infection rate is coming from schools/universities and it’s not viable to close them so i have no ideas what is viable. Closing the hospitality sector won’t make a single difference that’s the problem.

Mr Pearse said:

I have absolutely not a clue, considering the biggest infection rate is coming from schools/universities and it’s not viable to close them so i have no ideas what is viable. Closing the hospitality sector won’t make a single difference that’s the problem.

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and I don't think it is significantly teaching at universities that is the issue, it is the move to new accommodation and formation of new households. If each new flat just socialised together it probably wouldn't be too bad, but it seems that larger gatherings are occurring.

So given schools can't be closed as the long-term risk of no education is problematic.
Universities are already only doing minimal face to face teaching.
But student socialising seems to be an issue.
Workplaces that can operate from home largely are.

The only thing that can be stopped is socialising/hospitality. It might not make a huge difference but I agree there doesn't seem to be anything else that can really be done.
The government can tell people to stop meeting inside homes as well, but I don't think people will stick to this as well as they did back in April unfortuantly.

jon81uk said:

and I don't think it is significantly teaching at universities that is the issue, it is the move to new accommodation and formation of new households. If each new flat just socialised together it probably wouldn't be too bad, but it seems that larger gatherings are occurring.

So given schools can't be closed as the long-term risk of no education is problematic.
Universities are already only doing minimal face to face teaching.
But student socialising seems to be an issue.
Workplaces that can operate from home largely are.

The only thing that can be stopped is socialising/hospitality. It might not make a huge difference but I agree there doesn't seem to be anything else that can really be done.
The government can tell people to stop meeting inside homes as well, but I don't think people will stick to this as well as they did back in April unfortuantly.

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This is the problem going forward unfortunately yes close hospitality but all those who want to go out will still go out to another household or somewhere else where it’s not easy to trace where you could of been infected. I do honestly believe sending schools/universities back that quick was the wrong call and more should of been done to avoid what we are seeing now. In the end I do feel sorry for all those who’s jobs are now hanging by a thread because they can only do what’s asked of them.

The government's approach to Covid is a failure.

What happened to the plans during the lockdown period to rapidly expand NHS capacity and introduce an effective track and trace system? Then aiming for herd immunity amongst the young and healthy in the medium term.

People have sacrificed enough and shouldn't be having their freedom curtailed any longer. With any kind of effective government strategy (as seen in Germany, Sweden, New Zealand) the virus would be under control. It would, in fact, be almost business as usual for those who are not elderly or vulnerable.

The government is simply not being held to account. The idea that they are still "following scientific advice" is utterly laughable and people have had enough.

jon81uk said:

The only thing that can be stopped is socialising/hospitality. It might not make a huge difference but I agree there doesn't seem to be anything else that can really be done.

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Should we really be doing something that won't make a noticeable difference, just because there "doesn't seem to be anything else that can really be done", though? More specifically, when said difference has direct and negative consequences to so many jobs?

Islander said:

Should we really be doing something that won't make a noticeable difference, just because there "doesn't seem to be anything else that can really be done", though? More specifically, when said difference has direct and negative consequences to so many jobs?

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But the other option of closing even more places, probably has direct effects on even more jobs.

I would probably choose to ban socialising indoors altogether as the next step.

jon81uk said:

But the other option of closing even more places, probably has direct effects on even more jobs.

I would probably choose to ban socialising indoors altogether as the next step.

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Never happen. We've got nobody enforcing the rules and I have barely seen a copper for 5 months. Where are they all? Working from home too?

Tens of thousands of people ignored the rules the last time. Even more will this ignore it this time. It's just not going to happen in this country.

You get one chance at a lockdown in my opinion and we blew it. They have had all this time and all they have done is splunked 14bn up the wall. No plan. No track and trace system which is fit for purpose.

Benjsh said:

Never happen. We've got nobody enforcing the rules and I have barely seen a copper for 5 months. Where are they all? Working from home too?

Tens of thousands of people ignored the rules the last time. Even more will this ignore it this time. It's just not going to happen in this country.

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Oh I don't think people will do it, but it is a logical rule to put in place if pubs etc are forced to to close, even if it doesn't get heavily enforced.

and it is a London thing, but I have seen some police, when they were on a DLR train it was the highest compliance with mask wearing I've ever seen!

jon81uk said:

Oh I don't think people will do it, but it is a logical rule to put in place if pubs etc are forced to to close, even if it doesn't get heavily enforced.

and it is a London thing, but I have seen some police, when they were on a DLR train it was the highest compliance with mask wearing I've ever seen!

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I don't see why we should close anything as we did that last time and we're almost back to square one. It didn't work.

There are ways we can tackle this much better imo.

Step 1 - ensure that ALL vulnerable and elderly people are isolating and doing so safely. This might take some co-operation with families and neighbours as well as authorities. Look out people essentially.

Step 2 - All home deliveries slots from supermarkets should be for elderly and vulnerable people ONLY. If you're able to get out then go get your own shopping. The selfishness needs to stop and that includes bulk buying.

STEP 3 - Continue to keep your distance, wear a mask when appropriate, wash your hands and generally keep good hygiene.

Other than that.....there's nothing else we can do. We can't run away from this. It's here to stay until we have the cure. Making millions of people redundant is going to cause far far more damage to the nation and economy than Covid ever will.

D4n said:

The government's approach to Covid is a failure.

What happened to the plans during the lockdown period to rapidly expand NHS capacity and introduce an effective track and trace system? Then aiming for herd immunity amongst the young and healthy in the medium term.

People have sacrificed enough and shouldn't be having their freedom curtailed any longer. With any kind of effective government strategy (as seen in Germany, Sweden, New Zealand) the virus would be under control. It would, in fact, be almost business as usual for those who are not elderly or vulnerable.

The government is simply not being held to account. The idea that they are still "following scientific advice" is utterly laughable and people have had enough.

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Was that ever the official strategy? I may have missed it but do not ever recall seeing that said. Not least because it is nigh on impossible to gain herb immunity among younger people without it finding a way to infect those who are more vulnerable. Also many young and healthy people suffer from long-Covid for months after their infections.

The best way to gain herd immunity is through a vaccine.

I despise the idea that we should effectively lock up anyone vulnerable or over a certain age. It's fair enough that many of those people will want to but you cannot just tell anyone who is over 65 to stay at home whilst the rest of us go about doing whatever we want. I'm not saying that anyone on here is suggesting that is what should happen, but it is something you see suggested.

Are the new measures going to make much of a difference? Probably not. I think the majority of the population are pretty fed up now and understandably so.

The most important things to do in my opinion are maintain a social distance, ensure indoor spaces are well ventilated, wash your hands, wear a mask and if you get symptoms then for gods sake isolate!!

The new tiered restrictions have been announced. They will be discussed in Parliament tomorrow and become law from Wednesday.

Tier 1, medium. The current restrictions, "rule of 6" and hospitality closing at 10pm.

Tier 2, high. Additionally the mixing of households in any indoor setting is prohibited.

Tier 3, very high. Pubs and bars will also be closed.

There is no intention to close retail and schools in any level.

Areas currently with local restrictions are expected to move into tier 2, and Liverpool will move into tier 3. Additionally gyms, leisure centres, betting shops and casinos will be closed in Liverpool (additions to the standard closures list).

Sky News is reporting that in tier 3, restaurants can remain open and pubs that can operate as restaurants may do so too, but that will mean only serving alcohol with meals.

Benjsh said:

Step 1 - ensure that ALL vulnerable and elderly people are isolating and doing so safely. This might take some co-operation with families and neighbours as well as authorities. Look out people essentially.

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How can you force all vulnerable people and the elderly (60+ according to scientist which is no age at all) to isolate, don't these people have the right to go out and have a life and meet people? Please note that Jess and I have been shielding since March, I'm fit and healthy, but have to shield to protect Jess. How are you going to stop the virus entering the disable and elderly community considering that these people rely on outside help from carers?

Benjsh said:

Step 2 - All home deliveries slots from supermarkets should be for elderly and vulnerable people ONLY. If you're able to get out then go get your own shopping. The selfishness needs to stop and that includes bulk buying.

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I can't speak for everyone, but Jess and I are already getting shopping slot priority with home delivery as we are classed as vulnerable

Benjsh said:

STEP 3 - Continue to keep your distance, wear a mask when appropriate, wash your hands and generally keep good hygiene.

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This is the answer, every one needs to regularly wash hands, wear mask and keep space. If every one follows these rules without skipping out on them, then there should be no need for any lock down. Everyone should be doing their bit.

The problem is the rebellion of people that don't want to follow the rules, this also includes government members who have flouted the rules and the party leaders failing to sack them.

We also have conspiracy theorist claiming that Covid-19 is a hoax and is nothing to worry about, plenty of fake news and misinformation floating around the internet.

The trouble with this government, is that they over promise and underdeliver