So this will easily cost billions to build yet they seem to be getting more and more unrealistic by the day. I dread to think how much 14 coasters bog standard coasters will cost but that’s not even including everything else they plan to build.
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London Entertainment Resort: All Discussion
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Benjsh
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Just makes it even more pie in the sky is what I meant. Getting the billions will be hard enough as it is and wont happen. But starting off with 12 to 14 rollercoasters isn't going to happen either is it? Just makes me think this is just the fantasy of some Theme Park Enthusiast.
jon81uk
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Even Islands of Adventure only started with three rollercoasters.
If you’re spending £3.5 billion on a theme park resort, then in theory there’s no reason why you couldn’t have 14 roller coasters. If each one cost an average of £20 million, then that’s only £280 million. In itself though I don’t know how much of a selling point it would be. If there weren’t already parks in Europe with more than 14 coasters, it’d sound more impressive. But the theme park with the most roller coasters in the UK isn’t a great line for an international resort. Having said that, they will need to differentiate themselves from Disney, and 14 coasters would help with that.
I don’t think we should read too much into the artwork though. Gerbeau has always said that most of the attractions would be undercover, which is sensible. I suspect they’ve put all of these roller coasters in to make the artwork look more interesting. A theme park with lots of show buildings wouldn’t necessarily look like a lot in that kind of artwork. In the talk at the Bloo Loop Live he says that they haven’t settled on ride types yet, because they want to use the latest technology.
I don’t think we should read too much into the artwork though. Gerbeau has always said that most of the attractions would be undercover, which is sensible. I suspect they’ve put all of these roller coasters in to make the artwork look more interesting. A theme park with lots of show buildings wouldn’t necessarily look like a lot in that kind of artwork. In the talk at the Bloo Loop Live he says that they haven’t settled on ride types yet, because they want to use the latest technology.
Skyscraper
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By the time this park actually gets built, that "latest technology" will be out of date
Thameslink Rail
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They could spend that but it's a massive risk that they really shouldn't be taking. Remember Chessington only cost £20 million.
Skyscraper
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Landscaping was mostly done though as the park was developed from an existing zoo.
Thameslink Rail
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Even with landscaping spending billions on a theme park to me is ridiculous
Ian
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Yep, major parks completely from scratch are few and far between, and the rate of success is also far from consistent.
You can burn through millions just getting the core infrastructure in place like utilities, IT and roadways. Remember, this isn’t just a case of slapping down some rides and theming. There’ll be massive undertaking, laying car parks, getting power and plumbing to the site, building amenities like toilets and catering, not to mention all the back office requirements for admin duties, distribution centres/stock management warehouses and workshops.
For some perspective, DCA originally cost $600M back in 2001, followed by $1.1B in 2007 to try and actually put the place right! Disney SEA was around £2.4B based on current exchange rates but not accounting for inflation. Both of those were second gates, so there was already some degree of infrastructure in place. More will need to have been added no doubt, but it wouldn’t be a completely blank slate. It would probably also be fair to assume that the cost of construction will be greater in the UK/Europe than elsewhere in the world, due to different processes and regulations as well as importing and transporting resources into the country.
You can burn through millions just getting the core infrastructure in place like utilities, IT and roadways. Remember, this isn’t just a case of slapping down some rides and theming. There’ll be massive undertaking, laying car parks, getting power and plumbing to the site, building amenities like toilets and catering, not to mention all the back office requirements for admin duties, distribution centres/stock management warehouses and workshops.
For some perspective, DCA originally cost $600M back in 2001, followed by $1.1B in 2007 to try and actually put the place right! Disney SEA was around £2.4B based on current exchange rates but not accounting for inflation. Both of those were second gates, so there was already some degree of infrastructure in place. More will need to have been added no doubt, but it wouldn’t be a completely blank slate. It would probably also be fair to assume that the cost of construction will be greater in the UK/Europe than elsewhere in the world, due to different processes and regulations as well as importing and transporting resources into the country.
Benjsh
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I feel this project will finally be put out of it's misery in early 2021 and no doubt Covid will be used as the excuse as the final nail in the coffin. Realistically though even without a pandemic I think their plans were way too optimistic from the off.
We're talking about the most expensive and most ambitious new theme park resort in the world right here. Never been convinced the money was there and now I'm even more certain it isn't.
The Theme Park industry isn't even that lucrative either as a whole. There's not many parks outside of Disney n Universal who get amazing returns on investment. They attract lots of people, true, but the overheads for running these massive resorts is also eye watering. There are much better investment opportunities than a theme park resort is what I'm essentially saying.
We're talking about the most expensive and most ambitious new theme park resort in the world right here. Never been convinced the money was there and now I'm even more certain it isn't.
The Theme Park industry isn't even that lucrative either as a whole. There's not many parks outside of Disney n Universal who get amazing returns on investment. They attract lots of people, true, but the overheads for running these massive resorts is also eye watering. There are much better investment opportunities than a theme park resort is what I'm essentially saying.
jon81uk
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The money is in accommodation, hence why Disney, Universal, Merlin, Europa and Phantasialand all add so many hotels.
A Center Parcs type resort would probably make a return quicker. Or even a modern Butlins with a smaller theme park, a water park and lots of decent accommodation options. Then build up the theme park as time goes on.
Benjsh
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Bit different though as they built their parks and brands first and then added more and more accommodation as they went on and became more successful.
This almost feels like the other way around as they are begging for investors into the hotel opportunities and will give them a theme park and entertainment complex on the back of it. Remember this Co have zero experience in this kind of project as far as I know.
Never in my life have I wanted to be proven more wrong but this all just seems far far far too unrealistic. Really don't see a brick ever being laid on that site.
AT86
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Off-topic, but what happened to that development that was supposed to be going on not far from Towers? The holiday park type leisure development? Tried looking it up earlier but forgot the details. Cheers
Here is the website https://www.moneystonepark.co.uk/
Looks like a planning application went in for the first phase in Oct last year, but for whatever reason a decision still hasn’t been made, perhaps unsurprisingly for this area - locals aren’t keen. According the planning info a decision will be made in Nov 2020.
http://publicaccess.staffsmoorlands.gov.uk/portal/servlets/ApplicationSearchServlet?PKID=131319
Anyway, back on topic.
jon81uk
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Disneyland Paris opened with multiple hotels and so has every new Disney park since and many others. I think in this day and age it is known accommodation is the money so they will open with something and then build out.
I think going small on the theme park is the best way to start now really.
Benjsh
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Disney aren't really like everywhere else though. That's definitely more of a holiday destination where people travel overseas.
I'm just sceptical they even have the money for 1/10 of what they are proposing. This new park seems to be better than Universal's Epic Universe which immediately makes you think it's pure pie in the sky.
Ian
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Disney’s parks are absolutely destination locations, with the possible exception of Hong Kong, which was intentionally built as a “Diet Disney” park to minimise risk and cater to short day visits initially.
They also have the brand recognition which sets expectations and assures a certain level of guest numbers from day one.
That by no means makes them infallible though as Paris proved, where the sheer volume of roomstock hampered profitability.
The same could very well happen here. I have no doubt IF it ever was built there’d be some level of interest and desire for accommodation, at least domestically, thanks to the levels of press coverage the resort would get. But how much demand there would be internationally I’m still not convinced and they would need to ensure they don’t burden themselves with low occupancy rates due to rooms they cannot fill.
The safe bet would be a Chessington Hotel setup where a couple of accommodation options are built and managed by an experienced operator on a fixed term, with the view to take on the site full time if it’s proven successful and build your own additional hotel offering. Let’s you see what the appetite for multi-day custom is without having to incur too much direct expense and overheads like Disneyland Paris had. Given the previously touted IHG(?) tieup with this project I would expect that to be the case here too, at least originally anyway.
They also have the brand recognition which sets expectations and assures a certain level of guest numbers from day one.
That by no means makes them infallible though as Paris proved, where the sheer volume of roomstock hampered profitability.
The same could very well happen here. I have no doubt IF it ever was built there’d be some level of interest and desire for accommodation, at least domestically, thanks to the levels of press coverage the resort would get. But how much demand there would be internationally I’m still not convinced and they would need to ensure they don’t burden themselves with low occupancy rates due to rooms they cannot fill.
The safe bet would be a Chessington Hotel setup where a couple of accommodation options are built and managed by an experienced operator on a fixed term, with the view to take on the site full time if it’s proven successful and build your own additional hotel offering. Let’s you see what the appetite for multi-day custom is without having to incur too much direct expense and overheads like Disneyland Paris had. Given the previously touted IHG(?) tieup with this project I would expect that to be the case here too, at least originally anyway.
