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Coronavirus

Coronavirus - The Poll

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Just a thought but maybe we need to travel more and encourage it so eventually the majority of the world are dealing with the same variant otherwise we are never going to get on top of this.
 
Pretty sure that's not how it works unfortunately. New strains spring up all the time, everywhere, and if they have an evolutionary advantage they can quickly become the dominant strain. More travel just means more mutations being spread more quickly around the world and with greater opportunities to usurp the current strain. If we allow strains that are immune to the current vaccines to run loose unchecked we are all f***ed.
 
Skyscraper said:
Yeah Euro trips are still a long way off unfortunately. Even when fully vaccinated brits don't have to quarantine on return, they'll still have to take tests, plus they'll still have to quarntine on entry to most countries anyway.
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I anticipate other countries allowing us in with proof of full vaccination and a negative test relatively soon. Our tourism money is too important, with minimal risk from the vaccinated and tested.
 
WillPS said:
I get what you're saying - but all the good work with vaccination could be broken if a variant that busts them emerges. I get that variant could emerge in the UK (again) but it is so much more likely to happen in the rest of the world and particularly where incidence of the virus is that much higher.

If you were to tell me the winter might have 2 or 3 week-long local lockdowns but otherwise pubs, restaurants, hotels and leisure available, I would take it. What I can't contemplate is another Autumn/Winter like we had last year where the controls were ever-changing, life-limiting and often completely futile - followed by a 3 month strict lockdown.

If the travel industry and people's desire to get some sun.


Obviously HGV drivers can't be subject to the same controls and there is always a risk of importing variants there which Australia doesn't have to deal with. They are already subject to a relatively stringent test regime and I think that situation can't really be improved and more without disruption to essential supplies.

We can't live a normal life without that stuff, I get it.

People can live a normal life without holidays abroad tho - and none of the reasons I've seen for allowing travel abroad without a strict quarantine period are compelling enough to risk that vaccine-busting future variant being imported.

And I know that Australians aren't happy about the lack of travel, but you know as well as I do that they have had a better (more 'normal') lifestyle day to day than we have, far and away.

One of my best friend's wife lives in Australia - it's a bizarre situation frankly but it has worked for them for the last 20 years living on separate sides of the globe but seeing eachother more than half the time. You can imagine how disruptive the pandemic and travel restrictions both sides have been for them and how difficult it was for them to go 15 months with no way of seeing eachother. Our friend finally managed to get a place on a flight last month but in order to do so he had to fly business class (at a ruinous cost) as well as all the tests and quarantining - the total cost was about 7x more than what he would normally pay to get to Australia, and he's relatively lucky that he can do his normal job (writing) in that situation, otherwise there would have been a cost there too.

Trust me, I get that there are problems with the approach and there are a small group of people it totally dicks on, as well as a larger group who it causes dissatisfaction, but unfortunately if that is the cost of keeping every other business viable and more importantly not locking down the entire population, it's got to be worth it.
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What you are basically saying here is you can live a normal life without holidays abroad, for many not being able to travel is far more impactful on their sense of normality than visiting restaurants and shops.

From my perspective I despise shopping, enjoy a meal out but perfectly happy to cook at home so wouldn’t be devastated not to eat out, I don’t watch live sport and although I enjoy the theatre again I’m not gutted if I can’t go. I would put travel above all those things.

And that’s the issue everyone has their own perspective on what is a sacrifice. I really really think football crowds should not be allowed, it’s something you can watch on TV you don’t need to be there, but I guarantee @Rob would strongly disagree with me on that.

Im accepting of the short term restrictions as most people are but the virus is going nowhere and variants will happen, if you can’t open travel later this year then you will never ever be able to do so any safer.

We are at real risk of real fractures in society between the satisfied and unsatisfied if we start grading everyone’s preferred leisure time based on our own desires.

NuttySquirrel said:
Pretty sure that's not how it works unfortunately. New strains spring up all the time, everywhere, and if they have an evolutionary advantage they can quickly become the dominant strain. More travel just means more mutations being spread more quickly around the world and with greater opportunities to usurp the current strain. If we allow strains that are immune to the current vaccines to run loose unchecked we are all f***ed.
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It’s unlikely that a variant with full vaccine escape will occur quickly, and with the new mRNA tech new variants can be vaccinated against quickly. In fact companies have made alternatives for the variants but at the moment they haven’t seen any real value in updating the vaccines as they are so good at covering all the variants at the moment (bare in mind the Flu vaccine is having a good year if it offers 50% protection).
 
Dave said:
What you are basically saying here is you can live a normal life without holidays abroad, for many not being able to travel is far more impactful on their sense of normality than visiting restaurants and shops.

From my perspective I despise shopping, enjoy a meal out but perfectly happy to cook at home so wouldn’t be devastated not to eat out, I don’t watch live sport and although I enjoy the theatre again I’m not gutted if I can’t go. I would put travel above all those things.

And that’s the issue everyone has their own perspective on what is a sacrifice. I really really think football crowds should not be allowed, it’s something you can watch on TV you don’t need to be there, but I guarantee @Rob would strongly disagree with me on that.

Im accepting of the short term restrictions as most people are but the virus is going nowhere and variants will happen, if you can’t open travel later this year then you will never ever be able to do so any safer.

We are at real risk of real fractures in society between the satisfied and unsatisfied if we start grading everyone’s preferred leisure time based on our own desires.
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I'm not trying to safeguard the leisure I want/need, what I'm saying is that any domestic activity whatsoever is dramatically safer with heavily reduced chances of importing a hypothetical (but likely) future variant. Keeping those domestic businesses open and allowing the population to live normally day-to-day should be the priority, not international leisure travel.
 
I agree that everyone’s priority is different and to some a holiday in Spain is above everything but I don’t agree with letting people travel that are double vaccinated until everyone has been offered 2.
That’s only about 8 weeks away anyway but it’s not fair that an 18 year old has put two of the best years of their lives on hold to basically protect the older generation and then that older generation can then go on holiday and the 18 year old can’t.
It’s just wrong on so many levels and that comes from someone who is double vaccinated.
 
BigT said:
I agree that everyone’s priority is different and to some a holiday in Spain is above everything but I don’t agree with letting people travel that are double vaccinated until everyone has been offered 2.
That’s only about 8 weeks away anyway but it’s not fair that an 18 year old has put two of the best years of their lives on hold to basically protect the older generation and then that older generation can then go on holiday and the 18 year old can’t.
It’s just wrong on so many levels and that comes from someone who is double vaccinated.
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Yeah everyone needs to be double vaccinated and I’m cool with travel restrictions at the moment to enable that, just not indefinitely.

WillPS said:
I'm not trying to safeguard the leisure I want/need, what I'm saying is that any domestic activity whatsoever is dramatically safer with heavily reduced chances of importing a hypothetical (but likely) future variant. Keeping those domestic businesses open and allowing the population to live normally day-to-day should be the priority, not international leisure travel.
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Then you have to stop travel forever, the virus isn’t going anywhere and variants will keep happening. That is a certainty.

I personally think we have to accept some of these risks and move things on.
 
I wonder what the truth is behind the 'apology accepted' crap yesterday and this today? Carrie been looking over the polling or something?
 
Well that’s nice, one incompetent Tory MP quits and I get another incompetent Tory MP as my boss……

woo
 
Well this is a little concerning in terms of transmissibility but at present the vaccine is preventing severe illness. It doesn’t however mention anything about possible long Covid even though the person has been vaccinated …

TEL AVIV—About half of adults infected in an outbreak of the Delta variant of Covid-19 in Israel were fully inoculated with the Pfizer Inc. vaccine, prompting the government to reimpose an indoor mask requirement and other measures to contain the highly transmissible strain.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/vaccin...9-delta-cases-in-israeli-outbreak-11624624326
 
A couple of interesting points are coming out of Australia, in particular:

- Despite some of the strictest border controls throughout the pandemic the Delta variant has been able to seed itself into the population.

- The variant seems to mostly spread in people homes but there have been some track and trace investigations that have shown a 10 second interaction in a shop may have transmitted the virus.

- A house party with 26 guests 24 caught Covid, the two that didn’t where the only guests who had been fully vaccinated.

So if these extrapolate out that means border controls are pointless, vaccines work and short exposure times are now a risk for transmission.
 
Looks like it is not just the UK Government who like to play travel quarantine bingo! Germans have got until midnight tonight to get home from Portugal or face 14 days of quarantine, even if they have been fully vaccinated. Details on todays BBC News Live Feed.

Can't help but feel that any form of travel is going to be rather difficult/stressful for the remainder of this year at least. You are depending not only on policies in your own country but many differing policies in other countries.
 
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