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Secret Weapon 7 Discussion

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I'd say N:ST proves that most guests care about storyline. Even before the scare maze, the general consensus was a lot better then the attitude at launch. The only difference was that they added a more comprehensive story and paced it better.

Story and theatre do have a place in a theme park, look at Disneyland. If the story is vague in the queue line, people will generally lose interest and only care for the ride. Case in point on Nemesis. There is no story on park except on a wall in the fish and chip shop... not an ideal location in my opinion! XD

Oblivion's story isn't even comprehensive even to enthusiasts. all we know about is the lord of Darkness scaring riders in the queue.

There will be some who do not care for theatre, so having a good ride will appeal to them regardless of story. But I think saying 98% will not care, is a bit ignorant.

The Nemesis story was never intended to be a feature to the ride, it was for marketing purposes as far as I can tell, so the story is not an integral part of the ride, you don't need to give a damn.
 
Cant wait for some fresh news or Construction updates.... This same old same old is getting stale.


Do we think they will bring Jack Osbourne back for some publicity stunt running up to the launch?
 
^ Heh I doubt it... If I remember rightly, a new person in charge of marketing was brought in after they did the Jack Osborne thing. Hence why he never appeared again!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk.
 
Ah, I wondered what happened with that.... They do seem to turn over staff very quickly at Alton.

I hope the marketing team stay put until SW7 is opened!!
 
If construction updates have ever been badly needed, it is now! Or a new marketing push!

Anyway, in terms of the link between SW7 and The Sanctuary, I think it is a very clear link. The Sanctuary is the Ministry of Joys facility from the 1950s where they experimented on the living in an attempt to make people smile. At Scarefest you were invited to the re-opening of this facility. The queue video for The Sanctuary stated that modernisation was not yet present in the facility, and because of this they will be able to understand the issues with what they do. SW7 will then be the new modernised MOJ facility, having learnt from the mistakes of The Sanctuary. It will still be about social satisfaction, social compliance and making you smile; they are the Ministry of Joy after all. However the ways they go about it may be different.

:)
 
Equinox said:
Cant wait for some fresh news or Construction updates.... This same old same old is getting stale.


Do we think they will bring Jack Osbourne back for some publicity stunt running up to the launch?

If the discussion on this particular topic is getting boring for anyone try a different topic on the forum until something changes on SW7, myself I think there has been some interesting discussion for both sides of the argument.

For myself as for the name meaning nothing to the guests without knowing the background:

Nemesis: until the ride opened no-one had a clue what it meant and there was a good narrative behind the ride, it's now still considered one of the best coasters in the world.

Oblivion: name has nothing really to do with secret testing, more people understand its context though. The story is actually very weak on Oblivion.

Air: Everyone knows what that means but it hasn't helped people ignore the lack of a real theme and this has no story, down the slippery slope we go.

Th13teen: Name has nothing to do with the ride and odd, little narrative and people see it as a Marmite ride.

So here's my point, based on history I don't get how anyone can claim that people won't get the ride because of the name based on Nemesis success, I don't get how having a story will affect the ride based on Nemesis success. I don't get how the story can't retrofit into X-Sector based on the areas lack of any real detailed narrative and I don't see how a slightly off beat name will affect the ride based on Th13teens (and Rita's) name.

No one yet has offered a better name on here for me to completely pan Alton Towers (if this is the name), and Wardley won't allow a ride that depends on a story but NOT having any narrative gave us Th13teen and having a narrative gave us Nemesis.

The only cross-over between Sanctuary and SW7 is the Ministry of Joy and Marmalisation so this won't be The Sanctuary... the coaster version. There is however a great back story that is twisted and creepy to inform the theming.
 
Dave said:
Equinox said:
Cant wait for some fresh news or Construction updates.... This same old same old is getting stale.


Do we think they will bring Jack Osbourne back for some publicity stunt running up to the launch?

If the discussion on this particular topic is getting boring for anyone try a different topic on the forum until something changes on SW7, myself I think there has been some interesting discussion for both sides of the argument.

I disagree, the last 2 pages have been mind numbingly dull IMO - I tried another Topic and actually ended up on another forum altogether, Hence why I tried changing the discussion a bit.

Something has just been mentioned on TTF by Kenzie2012, any thoughts??

Edit: I should mention my view, I think he's got a point there.
But I don't think the person running twitter would know if a name change was on the cards just yet?!?!

Kenzie2012 said:
Has anybody else been keeping up with the Alton A - Z on Twitter?!?!

I've looked back and find it interesting that they have used Enterprise for E.....

If I didn't before I definitely don't think they will change the name now.
 
Equinox said:
I disagree, the last 2 pages have been mind numbingly dull IMO - I tried another Topic and actually ended up on another forum altogether, Hence why I tried changing the discussion a bit.

Something has just been mentioned on TTF by Kenzie2012, any thoughts??

Edit: I should mention my view, I think he's got a point there.
But I don't think the person running twitter would know if a name change was on the cards just yet?!?!

Kenzie2012 said:
Has anybody else been keeping up with the Alton A - Z on Twitter?!?!

I've looked back and find it interesting that they have used Enterprise for E.....

If I didn't before I definitely don't think they will change the name now.

Yes but that's your opinion, change the discussion by bringing another topic up not by calling people boring (lots of people do this so I'm not just focusing this on you).

As far as I know though Enterprise or Submission are not changing names for next year, need to check out that twitter though.
 
GaryH said:
To Joe Public who make up lets say 98% of park visitors, it sounds like a cheap fairground ride...
Says who? You? :-\

I can quite see that a large number of people would see it like that, but an equally large number of people, in my opinion, when seeing that it's clearly not referring to a merry-go-round, or see-saw, but something rather larger, would see it as a sinister, almost creepy name.

The Smiler. Doesn't sound nice, cheap or fairground-y at all. To me at least, and I dislike you shoe-horning me into 2% of 'non-Joe-Public'.

To assume that a large proportion of society would agree with you, or even a majority at a push, is fine. But to state (over and above assuming) that 98% must agree, is rather bemusing.
 
Equinox said:
Something has just been mentioned on TTF by Kenzie2012, any thoughts??

Edit: I should mention my view, I think he's got a point there.
But I don't think the person running twitter would know if a name change was on the cards just yet?!?!

Kenzie2012 said:
Has anybody else been keeping up with the Alton A - Z on Twitter?!?!

I've looked back and find it interesting that they have used Enterprise for E.....

If I didn't before I definitely don't think they will change the name now.
There's been a lot of speculation on if Enterprise will be having a name change. Most of it seems to come from the false impression that it is being replaced by a new ride (all evidence suggests it's just having a lot of parts replaced) and from those people that don't want The Smiler to be SW7's name and so are trying to convince themselves it'll be Enterprise’s new name.

That’s why I find it very unlikely to be changing myself.



On the subject of what’s being discussed I’m afraid people discuss what they want to discuss. If you don’t personally like a subject then you just have to wait it out for either news or a change of subject. Short of creating lots of separate topics that overlap so much they end up being used for the same debates there’s not much that can be done. You can’t force people to discuss what you want them to as was seen when comments like yours kept appearing during the development of SW6.
 
Tim said:
There's been a lot of speculation on if Enterprise will be having a name change. Most of it seems to come from the false impression that it is being replaced by a new ride (all evidence suggests it's just having a lot of parts replaced) and from those people that don't want The Smiler to be SW7's name and so are trying to convince themselves it'll be Enterprise’s new name.

That’s why I find it very unlikely to be changing myself.



On the subject of what’s being discussed I’m afraid people discuss what they want to discuss. If you don’t personally like a subject then you just have to wait it out for either news or a change of subject. Short of creating lots of separate topics that overlap so much they end up being used for the same debates there’s not much that can be done. You can’t force people to discuss what you want them to as was seen when comments like yours kept appearing during the development of SW6.


That's what I keep saying.... Enterprise isn't being replaced, it's merely an upgrade really.
Hopefully The face Logois The Smiler, who's to say its even got anything to do with Alton?!?!

It could be for some kids ride at Chessington for all anyone knows.

We've seen the list of TM's Merlin have acquired and I really can't see anything on that list you would ever attached to a coaster.
 
I have found the intellectual aspect of discussion, around SW7, to have been refreshingly deep and detailed. It has bought to the attention of many, issues of the CIA, old and new actual methods of psychological conditioning, how characters may or may not move into the new ride area.

I find it quite astonishing that people find the above, and more, boring compared to seeing some pictures of steel on grass. That steel is, like the name, nothing without the context and setting it will be within.

Did I find it exciting to see that track? Oh yes!! Very much so, but I have also found this aspect of the debate very pleasing - indeed it has revealed the deeper thoughts of many people on this forum in ways SW6 certainly did not.

And Dave, we don't always agree with each other ;D, but those last few posts I'm absolutely 100% with you.

I think the case has now been universally proven that a more immersive, and indeed, comprehensible narrative has a far greater impact on the publics understanding of a ride, than not so!

I do think Oblivion is pretty obvious in comparison to the others, but having one ride on park with a fully integrated and full on story, leading to, through and after the ride is absolutely a welcome, and much needed addition to Alton Tower's impressive array of twisted steel.
 
Jeez people are missing the point I was trying to make earlier.

Ok for the record, (and I didn't realise how much some of you wanted such accurate figures or how seriously you took this) - I was making the point that the MAJORITY of guests to the park are general public, and perhaps - perhaps, out of all the visitors, around 2% are theme park fanboys (and girls) who frequent alton forums like this one , and take a vested interest in the park, new rides, history, etc etc. It may be 2% it may be less - I don't know, but the point I was making is that we are in the minority here.

Also, im not saying the ride needs to have a great story to be a good ride, the subject of discussion at the time was how SW7 was named "The Smiler" and its link to the Sanctuary. All I was trying to say was that while we, the forum members, and other forum members, and other people with an interest in alton towers who may or may not be more or less than 2% of the overall annual visitors the park, will understand the reasoning behind the naming of the ride, that the majority of the other park visitors, i.e. the general public, who may make up more, or less than 98% of the visitors will not and to them, the name may sound stupid as it has no meaning.

Lets face it, the majority of guests going want a day out with minimal queues and to have some fun on the rides. They don't care about storylines, history, or even the meaning behind the SW's, and even without this knowledge, the rides are still good.

This isn't in dispute and im not in any way saying SW7 is going to be rubbish because it has (or has not) a story which people may (or may not) understand! The discussion was about the ride NAME and its LINK to the Sanctuary - which I don't think the MAJORITY of park visitors will understand.

.....and breathe. Hope that is now clear what I was trying to say !!!!!!!!!!!! Chill!!!
 
the point about the majority of the general public wouldn't be interested or get the back story. I really dont see any of that being a problem anyway, people can complain over the next few months about how "whatever the rides name will be" is terrible/ doesn't suit the ride etc. I would be fine with "The Smiler", and people saying, you need to know the back story of the sanctuary to understand the name choice, in my opinion are wrong. At the end of the day, the ride is not indoors... people are going to see the twisting track, the ride cars flying around, you're not going to see it and think its anything other than a thrill ride, and once you know this, and see this, the name works perfectly.
 
I think the statement that 98% of guests do not understand a rides story is true in meaning but worded inaccurately. Most people are perfectly capable of understanding the rides story but they simply don't care, with good reasons to:

When it comes to rides and narratives I'm still waiting for one that gets it right. There are plenty of rides that are themed well or set a good mood but I’ve never ridden a ride yet were I’ve felt genuinely pulled into the story like you would be a good book, film or even recently a video game. Once someone cracks that magic formula I can guaranty people will start paying attention to each rides story.

Often the reason cited for rides not being able to achieve a good narrative is their length, but there are two reasons I’d disagree with this. Firstly anyone who has watched the first 5 minutes of Up will know you can tell a complete and compelling story in a short amount of time. But secondly a ride is not just a couple of minutes long but anything up to 2 hours + of queuing, easily enough time to fill a films worth of narrative in even if it has to be cut down for quieter days.
Another issue is that by their very nature rides aren’t a human story but that of a machine, this will be harder to overcome. But then where does the phrase “life is like a roller coaster” come from?

Disney has had a good crack at proper narrative by layering their rides with hidden details for people to find. I’d also say that Hex comes very close as well but falls back on the old theme park cliché in the made up part of its story and lack of proper closure.

Apologies of this is slightly off topic, but you know me; once I start thinking about something I can’t stop :-[
My point is that a ride can have a good story to go with its name and theme but with the industry's current state it's better that the story is not essential for understanding unless they have a narrative that can really grab peoples attention.
 
I agree. I wasnt saying the ride would be pants because people dont understand it, I was just pointing out that while we may understand the connection between The Smiler and The Sanctuary, the majority of people will probably not, and some may query why the name has been chosen.

Its personal taste at the end of the day, 50 : 50 I would say on those who love the name and those who dont. I personally dont like it, but im not going to flame anyone who disagrees with me either.

Maybe Alton will do a good job of adding a narrative to the ride while queuing, who knows, only time will tell. Heck, maybe the ride wont even be called The Smiler yet who knows!
 
I can understand why people don't like it Gary mate for sure. I'd say it was even possibly less than 50% positive for it to be fair!

It is going to be so reliant on the theme if that's it's name - and if the goal is this story, they'll have to really pull out all the stops to get it right and for it not to be a bit of a squib.

I want to be clear, I don't disagree with your personal views on the ride, coasters/themes are subjective like everything else, and I like that about life - it keeps it varied.

The only thing I took issue with, was how we as enthusiasts view the GP, and their appreciation for a ride.

A complex theme will be lost on some, but if it's done well, and has a decent thrill ride attached then all audiences are pleased, as it then works on many levels.

I've never understood why this seemingly obvious approach to rides is not utilised more.
 
Where are we getting this information that the general public are going to find 'The Smiler', if that should turn out to be the name for SW7, to be a rubbish name that they would expect to see at a traveling fair? Has somebody held a survey where this has been demonstrated, or are we enthusiasts now aware of what every member of the GP thinks, or in fact, knows about Alton Towers, Themes, & rides in general?

I think, as has previously been stated, that people, in fact, do understand & listen/absorb the stories presented to them at each ride. It's down to whether they choose to care, or not.
 
In all honesty I'd rather be debating the name and theme of the ride than looking at more pictures of track which just looks like that of any other Eurofighter. Then the typical tedious enthusiast discussion that follows where people try and work out which bit of track will go where on the site...yawn. I'm not too bothered about seeing more pictures of the site either unless they show some proper progression - ie any kind of vertical construction.

Also - BigAl you hit the nail on the head with your doubts over the theme and storyline fitting into X-Sector.

:)
 
That 98% of non geek guests don't care what a ride is called anyway, they didn't give a monkeys that a launch coaster was called Rita so I doubt they will give much thought to SW7 name.

As for the story I agree with Wardley, a ride shouldn't depend on a story but its good to inform the theme and if you can hint at it during the ride then it adds something for certain guests without detracting from other guests experience.

Also people are getting hung up on the sanctuary, on our behind the scenes tour they made it clear Merlin Magic Makers gave them a brief run down of the concept but sanctuary was very much an interpretation of that based on where the MoJ would have been with the concept 50 years ago.

Essentially expect a variation on Marmalisation in SW7 with a more modern setting. And if a research system theme doesn't fit in X-Sector then I don't know what will. I think the metal spider proves that this wont be a roller coaster version of the sanctuary but a more technological method of Marmalisation.

It's funny but when a coaster opens with no story geeks moan but when one appears to have one and one that fits the area theme... Geeks moan. We are contrary people :D
 
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