2014: Family Developments

I don't mind IP's.

They are fantastic for theme parks, although I love to see unique in house ideas, an IP can be just as good or better.

I only dislike IP's when they are tacked on a ride making it look awful and detract from the experience (ex. Oblivion, Fanta)

I don't mind interesting IP's but something like Madagascar just feels rather bland. Granted I haven't seen the films but neither have I seen anything to convince me to.

As for the "Lord of the Rings" theme that keeps getting mentioned it's a brilliant idea... but not for a kids area. Don't get me wrong I'd love to see The Farm become The Shire but it's not a kids IP and this is a kids area.

But if we get a Shire in the farm, we can get an amazingly themed land with a great IP and get rid of little kids from Alton Towers! :O Win win!

You could argue sonic has a predominantly male fanbase, that does not mean its sexist, in fact lord of the rings probably have a large female fanbase, many girls I know love the series.

I know the kid aspect, but it doesn't mention it'll be kid, but family. I would say a lord of the rings is firmly in the family market.

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I think it's all well and good saying that this area is "family" and not "kids", but at the same time a big part of the whole family area will be the kids. You can create a family area which doesn't appeal to the younger members of the family, but then you've essentially ruled out half of the family, and essentially created another mature area.

It needs to be a theme the whole family understands and likes, both very young and very old. If it fails to tick both ends of the scale you've not catered for the family.

On that basis I really can't see The Hobbit being chosen. I don't see why because the lodges have this style that the park area will have to be the same though. Alton isn't like parks like PL for example, where their hotels are part of a themed area. They are well out of the way. What's the point of having the same theme twice at two ends of the site? Alton is famous for its wide range of themes and styles. Each part should be distinctly different in my opinion

I love how you're all considering the main problem with a Hobbit / Lord of the Rings IP as being that it isn't really child-friendly. Of course, you're correct in that claim (the films are too long and too violent; I know of very few people of my age or younger who've seen them and many aren't even aware of the books) but it's also one of the most popular film franchises of all time, with some of the biggest box office returns of all time. I really, really doubt that the rights to use the IP would be given away if the product promised by Alton Towers wasn't absolutely outstanding. I'm talking Wizarding World quality here. That's why we won't be seeing a Lord of the Rings IP; it's not a franchise that can be secured on the cheap.

As for what I expect in 2014; I'm not quite sure. I don't want to see the Farmyard removed and really see nothing wrong with it, so an expansion of the area would be nice. Replace the Dungheap with a small scale family coaster, have a live show of some kind in the former 'Peter Rabbit on Ice' tent, because that's what the park is really lacking at present, a flat on the site previously occupied by The Beastie and retheme Spinball. The rest of the area is tired, but just needs to be freshened up. Hopefully Alton can see that.

The Hobbit is a childrens' book. Yes, LoTR was a bit more 'adult' but if it is The Hobbit/Middle Earth as an IP, I think it would work great and be a fantastic draw to people of all ages. Remember, Cloud Cuckoo Land is more for pre-school/toddler age. Whatever this development is should tick the boxes of pre-teen to young adult (and beyond).

I may however have my hopes up quite high, as it's unlikely to be a Middle Earth theme. But the log cabins are so similar to Hobbit Holes, Tolkiens US lawyers will be on the phone if they aren't.

By Family I assume they mean the same age group these areas currently cater to? In which case the LotR/Hobbit IP is entirely inappropriate. The Farm and Storybook Land are aimed at young families and that audience alone. Most people who are teenagers or over don't even realise the farm exists as it has nothing at current to interest them and was never designed to.

So why would an IP that involves massive battles and brutal murders fit with this area? As Ben pointed out the films are 12 plus and not remotely aimed at kids. They could just base it around The Shire and nothing else but then what's the point in using the IP when they could just claim it is inspired by Tolkien's work? With a property that is that old you can get away with using it as inspiration (as they have done with the lodges) and not paying whatever the IP costs would be.

Now if they were looking to encourage an older audience into these areas I could understand (but as D4n pointed out it must be one of the toughest IPs to currently get). However I don’t think that’s what this development is going to be. I’m expecting something like Thomas Land and not an attempt to get older guest to visit this area.

Add in the fact that the Tolkien estate keep a very close eye on what can and can't be franchised in the LOTR name. They are also fairly litigious!

It took years for them to secure the rights to make the films let alone anything else. I see it as fairly similar to the way Harry Potter has worked with Universal: JK Rowling was closely consulted and only agreed to Universal's proposals when she saw the vast level of investment they were prepared to put in (compared to Disney who offered up just the one ride). I don't think AT have the financial clout to secure such a huge IP or do it justice in the eyes of the rights holders.

I find it very unlikely that we'd be getting a LOTR/Hobbit IP - too expensive, too ambitious and plus it doesn't quite fit the bill.

It's not the Tolkien estate, the Saul Zaentz company in Hollywood own the rights, and they are the ones who sue sandwich shops 5 feet from where Tolkien lived for being called The Hungry Hobbit.

I'm sure I read in the last few days that the Tolkien estate is suing Warner Bros for 'morally questionable' use of the brand. I'm also certain they retain a degree of editorial control meaning they can't simply invent new content. All in all, it seems like the whole thing is a legal minefield which Merlin would probably be best to avoid!

Whatever IP they opt for I would suspect that it would still fit around the existing farm element. They've slowly but surely developed the farm and brought the animals back after the disaster that was foot and mouth, so I would hope they don't just scrap the whole area.

Fredward said:

You could argue sonic has a predominantly male fanbase, that does not mean its sexist, in fact lord of the rings probably have a large female fanbase, many girls I know love the series.

I know the kid aspect, but it doesn't mention it'll be kid, but family. I would say a lord of the rings is firmly in the family market.

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I don't think Sonic has a predominantly Male fanbase. I know a lot of Sonic fans but most of them are Girls, But there are a lot of Males as well so I'd say it's 50-50.

On topic of the LOTR/Hobbit IP for Storybook land and the Farm. Whilst I think it does sound like a good idea on paper, but I wouldn't like to see one. It's not really suited for these areas because they are a bit violent from what I've heard (not seen the films or read the books). However I think it would be possible to tone it down for young kids. I'm aware of the whole LOTR setting and it is something that can be kid friendly.

Fredward said:

I only dislike IP's when they are tacked on a ride making it look awful and detract from the experience (ex. Oblivion, Fanta)

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You're getting confused between IPs (which the park pays for) and corporate sponsorships (which the park gets paid for).

IP is intellectual property an IP can be used as a corporate sponsorship. I would say the Fanta brand and marketing is at a stretch an IP, they are using the characters and brand of the Fanta/Coka-Cola franchise, it is sponsoring the ride, It's perhaps not the best example of an IP being used for corporate sponsorship but I thought that was a best example to use because it affecting us as a fan base, then some random example in god knows where.

Thanks for being pedantic.


Warner Bro's unfortunately are tyranic with the Tolkien name and I wouldn't be surprised if the Tolkien Estate will sue them for morally abusing the brand.

Warner Bros sent a cease and desist letter to a free to use mod for The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim that was aiming to replicate middle earth, they spent years on this fan project (I believe it was started in The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind) But Warner Bros asked them to halt there work and stop publishing it to the public. When they asked if they could continue this as a private project, Warner Bros asked them further to delete it all. This is akin to use making an RCT recreation of Alton Towers and Merlin asking us to delete it.

They bully small businesses and indie dev's because it may detract from their money making empire.


That was slightly off topic.. Carry on!

I wouldn't put Fanta as an IP. Yes, by using the brand you are using the companies property in terms of branding but the company is paying the park to use this branding.

The more obvious and generally accepted definition of IP is that it is a film or franchise which a park pays to use.


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For me combine the farm,storybook land and adventure land and use the ip tree full tom. Tom a young boy has a magical belt which shrinks and gives him magical powers. He then travels to a land and goes on adventures with sprites and fairies.
If done correctly and themed it could be such an enchanted and magical area.
The key thing is that a lot of rides could easily be kept or rethemed with a few rides added.
The show is quite new and is a huge success it is only a matter of time before a major company buys this franchise.
My idea for the 3 areas:
The new combined areas will be called tree toplis, which would see many rides remaining.
Squirrel nutty; replacing the train,
doodle, doodle derby; will become the bug rodeo, replacing trains
Riverboat retheme; zigzu epic adventure the boats and ride theme,
Berry bish bash; retheme
Spinball; retheme the ride or remove.
Dungheap; mushers swamp
Tractor ride replace
New ice show
Obviously we would see the removal of the singing barn, and other bits but it would be a fantastic and easy theme which is aimed at family and children.
I don't know how to copy and paste with my play book but check out some pictures such as tree togs tower, zigzu the frog inventors boat, the mushers ext

Hi i say keep the singing barn merlin would replace it with something arful.

Personally now the park have a contract with Century Fox I think we could see a land themed around one of there other movies. Someone mentioned about a Ice Age Land that would have worked well if the 4D was in the ice tent but looking at other options available there are:
- Rio
- Narnia
- Robots
- The Simpsons
And of course many more. I think a Narnia themed area would be quite nice, they could potentially tie that into the log cabins too. It will be interesting to see what choice they do take though and the plans in which they go with.