Team Decisions

Just.... lol.

Craig said:

...Naturally, this isn't something we want to promote when we're looking to support the resort!...

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I was not aware this site was to support Alton Towers. My view is that it is to play host to coaster enthusiasts, whom have a particular passion for Alton Towers.

They already have the backing of a multi-million pound conglomerate.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why Craig has done what he did, and support that decision obviously - I did also wonder, whether this may give less responsible people (and yes, the Urbex guys are generally respectful from what I have viewed thus far), more info than they needed.

I would however be careful, as to how this site is portrayed. I read that statement, as being biased towards AT, rather than your subscribers.

I still think it is the right decision by the way, and excellent that you can enjoy that relationship with the Towers, but that statement doesn't sit right with me.

TheMan said:

Just.... lol.

Craig said:

...Naturally, this isn't something we want to promote when we're looking to support the resort!...

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I was not aware this site was to support Alton Towers. My view is that it is to play host to coaster enthusiasts, whom have a particular passion for Alton Towers.

They already have the backing of a multi-million pound conglomerate.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why Craig has done what he did, and support that decision obviously - I did also wonder, whether this may give less responsible people (and yes, the Urbex guys are generally respectful from what I have viewed thus far), more info than they needed.

I would however be careful, as to how this site is portrayed. I read that statement, as being biased towards AT, rather than your subscribers.

I still think it is the right decision by the way, and excellent that you can enjoy that relationship with the Towers, but that statement doesn't sit right with me.

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I don't fully understand how you can say in the same sentence you agree with the decision but then say its bias. That said there was a real risk here of acting as though we where just going to bow to the park because they said jump, which we where very aware of. They do however have a valid point in that they generally trust enthusiasts but that casual browsers might see this and get inspiration.

Therefore the best option seemed to be to keep the topic but move it into a forum that doesn't get seen by the likes of google. Therefore that concern is mitigated as the casual browsers cant see the topic but members dont miss out on the right to discus.

We don't however want this topic to get swamped by discussion on the decision so either feel free to PM a team member or create a discussion in Guest Services.

TheMan said:

Just.... lol.

Craig said:

...Naturally, this isn't something we want to promote when we're looking to support the resort!...

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I was not aware this site was to support Alton Towers. My view is that it is to play host to coaster enthusiasts, whom have a particular passion for Alton Towers.

They already have the backing of a multi-million pound conglomerate.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why Craig has done what he did, and support that decision obviously - I did also wonder, whether this may give less responsible people (and yes, the Urbex guys are generally respectful from what I have viewed thus far), more info than they needed.

I would however be careful, as to how this site is portrayed. I read that statement, as being biased towards AT, rather than your subscribers.

I still think it is the right decision by the way, and excellent that you can enjoy that relationship with the Towers, but that statement doesn't sit right with me.

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I think the reason the statement doesn't sit right is because you are reading the statement in the wrong way. Let's not forget what TowersStreet is - an Alton Towers Resort Fan Site. It's portrayed as being a website and forum for people to discuss Alton Towers. It's not like we're a cult set against everything Alton Towers does, as a fan site though generally a lot of discussions will be positive, some however will be negative.

Naturally though, there is a general support for Alton Towers Resort - we are an Alton Towers Resort fan site after all! You seem to be taking this all out of context. It's not like we're being censored (which is something the team has stated they would not condone in the past). Content is simply being moved so that it's out of harms way.

Legal or illegal, if someone had fell to their death, disastrous consequences are involved.

Actually Dave I thought I made my reasons quite clear if you read the post again.

It was the content, which as I say I had concerns my self over also - but that's hard balance. I accept that, and agree with the decision.

You can either take my view on board, or not, it is as straight forward as that Dave.

I read that as coming across a bit too pally with AT. You forget. I read this stuff with no bias and little experience, except that in things such as PR, Customer Relations, blah blah boring as I know.

I gave you an opinion as to how it came across. Trying to critique my post, will not change a subjective view on that, particularly when you say you do not understand how the statement can come across as bias, whilst still agreeing on the fundamental issue involved.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why Craig has done what he did, and support that decision obviously - I did also wonder, whether this may give less responsible people (and yes, the Urbex guys are generally respectful from what I have viewed thus far), more info than they needed.

I would however be careful, as to how this site is portrayed. I read that statement, as being biased towards AT, rather than your subscribers.

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To clarify, that specifically relates to these two comments by Craig:

...Naturally, this isn't something we want to promote when we're looking to support the resort!...

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And thus:

We hope this strikes a balance between allowing members to continue discussion and supporting Alton Towers

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Those two quotes come straight after each other, towards the end of the statement, and leaves in my opinion a sense of a little bias. The decision can still be right, and indeed is sensible, as we all wish the park to be secure! That surely is a given.

I would have said. "In light of security concerns as a result of this thread, we have removed this to out of google search ears, as we do not wish to encourage or facilitate breaches of the park boundaries. Whilst we appreciate our members here are responsible, others may not be so."

OR words to that effect.

The application of some common sense Dave, is quite different to that of "supporting" a park which in my opinion at this time, needs a sharp prod up it's backside, with open forums such as this expressing this freely - not feeling that it has intimate links with the park that could hamper this.

Are you a fan/enthusiast FORUM, or are you an AT supporters club?

I do not want to come across harsh here, I like Craig and everything he does here is worthy of praise in my opinion - but your post really did not take the point I made in context at all, by contesting my assertion that a decision can be right, but it's delivery better
.

I hope that clears it up.

Aly said:

I think the reason the statement doesn't sit right is because you are reading the statement in the wrong way.

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I don't disagree with this Aly. In fact, in a roundabout way, it's exactly my point.

There are blurred boundaries, and as a site, you want this to be clear as daylight.

I am giving my opinions only, others (the regulars especially) will disagree, because they already have an intimate understanding. That is to be expected.

I may be on my own in this view, which is also fine, it will not be the first or last time lol! I just once again, gave my opinions as a relative "noob" as to how this comes across.

That is neither right nor wrong, it can be heeded, or ignored - either way, I'm going to express my opinion as it may assist thought in the future, and gives a perspective based on my experiences down the years, I felt it dutiful to share.

Aly said:

Sorry, I forget that you have went through more experiences than the entire population of TST put together.

I should really put you in charge tbh.

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Not entirely sure what the point of this was Aly. To me the last vestige of someone without a valid standpoint is an insult. Perhaps you would rather I just shut up and tow the party line?

I posted this on another thread, if people take issue with my life experience, that is their problem not mine. However, once you begin with insults, I have every right to then defend that. The majority of what I do here, is to contribute my thoughts and opinions to threads, in the most part making them out to be nothing more than that, based on my experiences.

What the hell else am I going to base my thoughts and opinions on exactly? Just because I choose to back them up in an evidential fashion, to try and put a point of view across, does not warrant insult.

In fact, as I pointed out in all of my posts in relation to this, I have the greatest respect for Craig, and the site, hence I choose to spend time here. That my friend is not warranted of insults.

EDIT:
Not without it's irony, I agree with James on moving this post to Guest Services ;D

There are things in regards to this site, and new members, that as a new member still (many posts or not), I think are not being taken on board I have to say.

The manner in which people with opposing, or at times, controversial views (as decided by the existing close membership) I can see putting people off.

I am a very thick skinned chap, and I have found this site extremely challenging at times. I saw another new member who left, being lauded about in the Shout Box a few days ago, I've seen new posters given short shrift. I try to be as easy as possible with new members, but happy to get stuck into the old guard who give as good as they get that's for sure.

There is however, way too much of what went on above. What precisely did I do, to deserve to be insulted? I couldn't give a hoot let's be clear, but how does that come across?

I have not had a single bad word to say against you Aly, quite the contrary in fact - so that came as a surprise I will admit. I have given you much respect for your achievements, but you find it acceptable to belittle mine?

Nice job mate.

Certain attitudes, in my opinion, need to change on this site. Ironically of course, given my initial post about how something came across (note: I did not state it as a fact just a potential perception), I think Craig from what I have seen is doing a fantastic job.

I feel the team got it as right as they could in this case, and whilst I do understand your concerns TheMan, I simply don't agree.

Even when members severely disagree with behaviour or direction of the park, the reason we would offer criticism is because we have our own ideas of what success for the park is and we wish them to succeed. In that sense, we do all "support" Alton Towers.

If a campaign to close down Alton Towers were started, I dare say TST would and ought take a stance of support towards keeping the theme park open.

In this case the support for the park is that the forum team have decided to work with Alton Towers to prevent an opportunity for potential copycat intruders (some who may have had less noble intentions than the examples we've seen) getting ideas, but crucially still facilitate a serious conversation by dedicated enthusiasts.

Your point has been taken on board TheMan, it was a major concern of the team and we spent quite a lot of last night discussing it and not just bowing to Alton Towers was a major factor in this decision. But so was the fact we didn't fully disagree with their concern about casual readers getting ideas hence the compromise.

Its interesting that last time we had a space on the team this very scenario was one of the questions as it is one of the biggest headaches for the team balancing two sides of the argument. I think though the fact we have preserved members freedom to discus this though is important to us.

Please could somebody explain what this is all about as the first post delved straight in without explaining anything?

NastyPasty said:

Please could somebody explain what this is all about as the first post delved straight in without explaining anything?

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This post will explain it all for you.

It was split from the Urbexing thread in the Tavern as it was drifting off topic (the quote in the first post refers to Craig's post when he moved the thread there from AT General)

My own view is that the team acted perfectly proportionately - it's a difficult balance, and I see Towers' concerns that this sort of activity probably shouldn't be publicised to a wide audience - and I genuinely respect the team for moving it to the Tavern and keeping it open

You really can tell that it's the closed season now can't you!

How anyone could have an issue with what Craig posted in the topic this is all referring to is beyond me. It's hardly a big deal. And for the record, I do see myself as an Alton Towers supporter; I want them to do well and support them, and as all supporters do I also disagree with some of the things that they do.

Some balanced opinions here, I agree with them all in general.

As I say, I think the balance of what you actually did is fine - as stated right from the off, I agree with it entirely, but I would be careful how it is worded and how it comes across to someone, with very little understanding as to how this site functions in it's relationship with AT itself.

To someone with little idea as to exactly how close, or not, TST is to AT itself, it came across very pally - which might give reason for some to second guess their posts etc.

There was a bit too much Alton Towers this and that, in that statement for me, for it to come across as balanced in favour of members - which it should be, as a Towers forum, in my opinion.

I was very specific in pointing out I was not criticising the site, or Craig, or the actions - it was about how it comes across to someone, with zero vested interest and only just over a month of visiting the site.

We should be supporting Alton towers as a forum they have given us some amazing experiences such as behind the scenes tours and stuff that most people don't get to do

Rob said:

You really can tell that it's the closed season now can't you!

How anyone could have an issue with what Craig posted in the topic this is all referring to is beyond me. It's hardly a big deal. And for the record, I do see myself as an Alton Towers supporter; I want them to do well and support them, and as all supporters do I also disagree with some of the things that they do.

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Fantastic, but we aren't all of that ilk Rob. I support them, when they deserve it, as they charge a heck of a lot of money! I mainly come, as I am sure many others do, because they are fans of the coasters there, and indeed wish to discuss the park and other coasters/parks with fellow enthusiasts.

Of course, as Meat said, should the need arise to back the park in difficulty, I would be there of course I would - but my primary reason for coming here, was to discuss things with fellow enthusiasts. I joined something that poses as a forum and information site - not a "fan site". There is most definitely a difference!

TheMan said:

I am a very thick skinned chap, and I have found this site extremely challenging at times. I saw another new member who left, being lauded about in the Shout Box a few days ago, I've seen new posters given short shrift. I try to be as easy as possible with new members, but happy to get stuck into the old guard who give as good as they get that's for sure.

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TheMan said:

Certain attitudes, in my opinion, need to change on this site.

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I totally disagree with you in regards to this debate, but this point / post as a whole is absolutely spot on.

Actually, considering that a number of members on here choose to criticise other sites for being slightly cool towards new members, it's rather perplexing that it seems to be those same people who react badly to new users on here. Quite a lot of biting sarcasm and unnecessary cruelty is noticeable at times, I hate saying it, but I feel that certain members of this site have built up a clique of sorts which seems determined upon deterring others from using TST. I know of a fair few potential frequenters who were completely put off by this.

Anyhow, I digress. In regard to the actual point at hand, I think the team made the correct call absolutely.

josht said:

We should be supporting Alton towers as a forum they have given us some amazing experiences such as behind the scenes tours and stuff that most people don't get to do

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And there is my point in one quote.

I think it is lovely that they do this, but is precisely what I am on about. Older members, experienced members, know and experience this.

New members don't. And that is where familiarity once again over rides critical thinking, and unbiased judgement, as to how things are presented to those who do not know.

I'm not saying, what they are doing is a bad thing - it's clearly not, it deserves praise, but the boundaries are very blurred, and when someone like me posts a critique because of that - well, you get slated for it!

It's not right guys, no matter how you dress it up.

TheMan said:

Rob said:

You really can tell that it's the closed season now can't you!

How anyone could have an issue with what Craig posted in the topic this is all referring to is beyond me. It's hardly a big deal. And for the record, I do see myself as an Alton Towers supporter; I want them to do well and support them, and as all supporters do I also disagree with some of the things that they do.

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Fantastic, but we aren't all of that ilk Rob. I support them, when they deserve it, as they charge a heck of a lot of money! I mainly come, as I am sure many others do, because they are fans of the coasters there, and indeed wish to discuss the park and other coasters/parks with fellow enthusiasts.

Of course, as Meat said, should the need arise to back the park in difficulty, I would be there of course I would - but my primary reason for coming here, was to discuss things with fellow enthusiasts. I joined something that poses as a forum and information site - not a "fan site". There is most definitely a difference!

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When I joined TTF back whenever it was I saw it as an Alton Towers fansite. I see TST, TTF, TN and ATA when it was alive all as Towers fan sites. The main reason most of us are here is because of our love and enjoyment of Alton Towers. This enjoyment may not be quite what it has been in the past but it is why we are all here. Therefore I see a large proportion of us as supporters. Now that's not to say that everyone has to be a supporter, some people will be here as general coaster or theme park enthusiasts. But as the name TowersSteet suggests, we are clearly a group of Towers fans primarily, who also enjoy many other aspects of the theme park world.

D4n said:

TheMan said:

I am a very thick skinned chap, and I have found this site extremely challenging at times. I saw another new member who left, being lauded about in the Shout Box a few days ago, I've seen new posters given short shrift. I try to be as easy as possible with new members, but happy to get stuck into the old guard who give as good as they get that's for sure.

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TheMan said:

Certain attitudes, in my opinion, need to change on this site.

Click to expand...

I totally disagree with you in regards to this debate, but this point / post as a whole is absolutely spot on.

Actually, considering that a number of members on here choose to criticise other sites for being slightly cool towards new members, it's rather perplexing that it seems to be those same people who react badly to new users on here. Quite a lot of biting sarcasm and unnecessary cruelty is noticeable at times, I hate saying it, but I feel that certain members of this site have built up a clique of sorts which seems determined upon deterring others from using TST. I know of a fair few potential frequenters who were completely put off by this.

Anyhow, I digress. In regard to the actual point at hand, I think the team made the correct call absolutely.

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I just want to make clear, and thanks D4n by the way for that, that I absolutely agree with what Craig did. I considered raising it as a point before hand, I'm sure many of us thought - should this be online encouraging those who are perhaps less responsible or respectful? We don't live in perfect times do we.

For me it was how the statement, as a new member, blurred the line as to what the forum was for, and how pally was TST and AT, and how does that portray the spirit of open debate.

I can't criticise what Craig did, he did absolutely the right thing - it was merely how it came across that concerned me. If I didn't care about the site by the way, and it's decent members and dedicated owners, I wouldn't post it.

Rob said:

When I joined TTF back whenever it was I saw it as an Alton Towers fansite. I see TST, TTF, TN and ATA when it was alive all as Towers fan sites. The main reason most of us are here is because of our love and enjoyment of Alton Towers. This enjoyment may not be quite what it has been in the past but it is why we are all here. Therefore I see a large proportion of us as supporters. Now that's not to say that everyone has to be a supporter, some people will be here as general coaster or theme park enthusiasts. But as the name TowersSteet suggests, we are clearly a group of Towers fans primarily, who also enjoy many other aspects of the theme park world.

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I understand your views on this Rob, and I'm not making this up when I say I agree with most everything that has been said, I do - because it's personal to you, so how can it not be true?

What I talk about however, is someone with a blank canvass, what does the site portray, how does the forum come across - it's clinical I admit, but it's a view that I share whilst I have it, as I become more integrated into the place, it becomes more difficult - but occasionally things stand out.

They aren't what the site is in short Rob, they are your reasons for joining and the parts of it you enjoy. You should enjoy that freely, but it shouldn't stop others who come for different reasons, from the same. All my concern was, was the context of the statement didn't really reflect that - even though it's content, was totally and absolutely without fault.

Certainly stirred a debate though eh hahaha!!

Mind you, I think in closed season you could ask:

"Is Pink REALLY Pink" and end up with a 50 page dossier of opinions and heated debates ( I will leave the "psychology" based answer out before anyone starts, it wasn't the point hahah! )