[2023] The Curse at Alton Manor

Blackhole_Sun said:

Sort of… generally each scene is basically a screen with background elements filled in with static props. The trackless ride system is…. unique, but distracting for me.

If that’s the way dark rides are going you can count me out of it.

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Going? They've gone.

I think we need to take a look at Lego Factory and Jumanji: The Adventure to see where Merlin might be going with their dark rides. While they do have some screens, they are better integrated into their themed environments and are in addition to other elements like animatronics, detailed sets and projection mapped models.

It'd just be nice to see a new dark ride without a single screen or projection, that's all. Just pure theeming, props, and clever illusuons. Maybe it's just personal taste, but whenever I encounter a screen or a projection on a Dark ride, it just ruins the whole experience for me.

Screens can be immersive too, if integrated properly into their themed environments. I'd hate to see something like Ratatouille in which you can clearly see the edges of the screen and zero theming around the screens. An example would be large windows with physical theming around them and well rendered animation of ghosts on the screens. I also think that elements like projected models would be better looked after at a Merlin Resort Theme Park. The Queen in Gangsta Granny is a pretty good projected model.

I’d argue that screens and projections can create clever illusions and build immersion in themselves.

For instance, effects like Pepper’s Ghost can very cleverly give off the illusion of something being there when it isn’t, and that uses projections.

Matt N said:

I’d argue that screens and projections can create clever illusions and build immersion in themselves.

For instance, effects like Pepper’s Ghost can very cleverly give off the illusion of something being there when it isn’t, and that uses projections.

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But the peppers ghost effect isn't a screen or projection based illusion. It's been around since the mid 1800s, Duel has it. The Undertakers casket has a ghost flying in it, that's done by a peppers ghost effect. Its just a glass pane tilted by 45 degrees with one side having a prop behind it and having a light shone on the prop.

Nosferatu said:

I think we need to take a look at Lego Factory and Jumanji: The Adventure to see where Merlin might be going with their dark rides. While they do have some screens, they are better integrated into their themed environments and are in addition to other elements like animatronics, detailed sets and projection mapped models.

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Wouldn’t surprise me in anyway to find out this is what the ride is. Considering the possibilities for re-theming TWWDW into a small Legoland it seems a no brainer. GG/Dungeons/4D cinema/Driving school rethemed/reopened and a few new flats, it’s ready to go.

A completely different offer to the place at the Trafford Centre and could become a mini legoland of the north. I could even see a mini land being added inside the towers themselves as another year long attraction. Lots they could do, with an IP that they’ve already used a lot

I don’t think they need a 20 metre tall building to house a Lego Factory tour attraction. Not to mention the cannibalisation that would occur to their existing visitor base to Discovery centres in Manchester and Birmingham.

If any park in the UK gets a Lego Factory Adventure ride like that one, I think it’ll be Legoland Windsor. It would make sense, what with that whole park being Lego-themed, and it would also complement their other dark rides nicely, in my view.

Matt N said:

If any park in the UK gets a Lego Factory Adventure ride like that one, I think it’ll be Legoland Windsor. It would make sense, what with that whole park being Lego-themed, and it would also complement their other dark rides nicely, in my view.

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Agreed Matt, I always thought that LLW should get that ride.

I can't see a Lego IP themed attraction working at Alton Towers, it's not Legoland. But certainly something that uses similar technology to the Lego Factory dark ride in terms of screens (well integrated into the themed environment) and a handful of projected models would work, but maybe not too many of them as there's less shock value in static projected models. There would still need to be things like ghouls flying towards you, like the figures designed by Keith Sparkes for the Haunted House. Ultimately, the ride system is very likely to be staying put, so more variety would be needed.

Nosferatu said:

I think we need to take a look at Lego Factory and Jumanji: The Adventure to see where Merlin might be going with their dark rides. While they do have some screens, they are better integrated into their themed environments and are in addition to other elements like animatronics, detailed sets and projection mapped models.

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I might be alone here but that looks naff. Static models and television screens.

They should have kept the Haunted house as it was and put something like this in the Dungeon near the rest of the toddler rides. A screen is not a substitute for an animatronic or a built wall/set piece. It's lazy, cheaper and less maintenance for them.

RIPCorky said:

I might be alone here but that looks naff. Static models and television screens.

They should have kept the Haunted house as it was and put something like this in the Dungeon near the rest of the toddler rides. A screen is not a substitute for an animatronic or a built wall/set piece. It's lazy, cheaper and less maintenance for them.

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I also think they should avoid adding a heavy narrative to the ride, like Ratatouille at Paris. I really hope they're rr only removing certain aspects of The Haunted House for technical issues.

The ride just isn't designed for a Narrative driven story and screens. To this day I still don't like The Gruffalo River ride from the static props, the heavy narrative, and the empty spaces. Who thought that removing one of the UK most iconic Dark Rides and replacing it with a lackluster IP was a good idea?

The only good IP retheme I like is Wallace and Gromits Thrill o' Matic at Blackpool. It doesn't rely on screens, heck it doesn't have any. It has big sets, props, animatronics and wonderful music. IMO it's what a modern Dark Ride should be aiming for.

Trooper Looper said:

I also think they should avoid adding a heavy narrative to the ride, like Ratatouille at Paris. I really hope they're rr only removing certain aspects of The Haunted House for technical issues.

The ride just isn't designed for a Narrative driven story and screens. To this day I still don't like The Gruffalo River ride from the static props, the heavy narrative, and the empty spaces. Who thought that removing one of the UK most iconic Dark Rides and replacing it with a lackluster IP was a good idea?

The only good IP retheme I like is Wallace and Gromits Thrill o' Matic at Blackpool. It doesn't rely on screens, heck it doesn't have any. It has big sets, props, animatronics and wonderful music. IMO it's what a modern Dark Ride should be aiming for.

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Well whatever they do with it the ride system has to stay. Those trackless things in a haunted house attraction would totally ruin the feeling of being "alone" and any jump scare by turning to face a screen or whatever. It's a shame these days that the general public can't be trusted to turn their heads and view what they want. Then again I guess they're turning you away from what they don't want you to see.

Trooper Looper said:

At its worst, I hope they keep the Grand Hall. The only thing broken on that scene is the lighting, so I hope they just repaint the scene a bit, some new lighting to make it darker in there, and some good old TLC.

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The lighting on Duel in general was broken, especially compared with the HH.

RIPCorky said:

I might be alone here but that looks naff. Static models and television screens.

They should have kept the Haunted house as it was and put something like this in the Dungeon near the rest of the toddler rides. A screen is not a substitute for an animatronic or a built wall/set piece. It's lazy, cheaper and less maintenance for them.

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That's a little dramatic, it's worth bearing in mind that John Wardley is highly involved. I shared what I think is likely from Merlin given the kind of technology they've used in the past, but what I haven't done is give any hard facts as to what is definitely happening with Duel next year, because ultimately the only people with that knowledge are the project team and senior management.

The other attraction I brought up was Jumanji: The Adventure, which also happens to be designed by John Burton. While it does feature screens, it also utilizes some large scale animatronics and detailed sets (yes it does also have vinyl walls and an exposed ceiling but that's besides the point, it's still the most impressive and highly rated dark ride that MMM have delivered to a Merlin 'Resort Theme Park').

RIPCorky said:

Well whatever they do with it the ride system has to stay. Those trackless things in a haunted house attraction would totally ruin the feeling of being "alone" and any jump scare by turning to face a screen or whatever. It's a shame these days that the general public can't be trusted to turn their heads and view what they want. Then again I guess they're turning you away from what they don't want you to see.

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I don’t think a trackless ride system on its own would necessarily result in the “feeling of being alone” being lost by any means.

The reason that many trackless dark rides aren’t like that is because they’re designed to take advantage of the flexibility in motion that trackless ride systems offer to do things such as “dance” around rooms and such. If you designed a trackless ride system to work in a ghost train-style ride, I’m sure that it could pull off the same effect as the original HH did while also adding some cool new extras, such as a motion base, that could make the ride system feel dynamic and flexible in a way that it couldn’t in 1992.

This is all hypothetical, anyway, because the ride system is very unlikely to be receiving any major changes. If we were living in a dreamworld, I’d actually have quite liked for them to have gotten rid of the current ride system and replaced it with something more modern and dynamic, such as a trackless ride system or Oceaneering motion base ride system (similar to Jumanji at Gardaland), but the ride system is very, very unlikely to be changed as part of this refurb, in my view.

Trooper Looper said:

I also think they should avoid adding a heavy narrative to the ride, like Ratatouille at Paris. I really hope they're rr only removing certain aspects of The Haunted House for technical issues.

The ride just isn't designed for a Narrative driven story and screens. To this day I still don't like The Gruffalo River ride from the static props, the heavy narrative, and the empty spaces. Who thought that removing one of the UK most iconic Dark Rides and replacing it with a lackluster IP was a good idea?

The only good IP retheme I like is Wallace and Gromits Thrill o' Matic at Blackpool. It doesn't rely on screens, heck it doesn't have any. It has big sets, props, animatronics and wonderful music. IMO it's what a modern Dark Ride should be aiming for.

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You can add a clearer narrative to a ride without necessarily being overbearing, and I personally think that changes in this vein would not go amiss as part of the overhaul.

I think it would really benefit from some details in the queue to tell a bit more of a story, or maybe a broad story being physically told, and there are ways you can do that without necessarily being overbearing and still maintaining the spirit of the original ride.

Take something like the Haunted Mansion, for instance. The story isn’t too overbearing in that case, but a distinct story definitely exists, and the dialogue and pre-show support that for people who are interested. For people who aren’t, they can just sit back and enjoy a ride through a spooky house.

Or maybe something like the new Piraten in Batavia at Europa Park. That is a stunning ride, in my view, and it tells a clear story without being too overbearing. The animatronic pirate and parrot, as well as the various little details in the queue, set up the story, and there is a central character who adds narrative to the ride. However, the narrative is not overbearing, and those who aren’t interested can still just sit back and take it at face value.

I personally feel that the HH lacked a certain narrative edge, and I think that having something like that would really enhance it without necessarily detracting too much from the core aim, personally.

zeock said:

The lighting on Duel in general was broken, especially compared with the HH.

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You're not wrong, but i think the Grand Hall was handled pretty well in terms of lighting. It was only let down by audio and the Swinging Demon not being as fast as it used to be. Look at the lightning comparison between when it was the HH and when it was Duel.

First picture is in its HH years, the second is when it was Duel.

Trooper Looper said:

You're not wrong, but i think the Grand Hall was handled pretty well in terms of lighting. It was only let down by audio and the Swinging Demon not being as fast as it used to be. Look at the lightning comparison between when it was the HH and when it was Duel.

First picture is Duel, the second is the Haunted House.

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Interestingly, the HH and Duel don’t actually look that different at all in the context of this one scene…

I thought the trackless ride system in ratatouille was absolutely clever, but so distracting. It interacted with the screens well but only really made the ride feel like a motion simulator for me. Is that required in a haunted house?

A haunted house should have an older more archaic feeling to it. A single tracked ride system fits this for me. Jump scares, big scenes, animated figures.

Projections and projection mapping has it’s place as background theming but can’t be the lead technology for scenes in a dark ride succesfully. Especially when wearing 3D glasses.

If you compare Phantom manor at DLP to Web slingers or ratatouille there is no comparison on the quality of the rides and how immersive they feel. Same with Tomb Blaster vs Gruffalo as a Merlin equivalent.

I just hope John Wardley can steer them in the right direction. As well as screens/graphics probably degrade quicker than physical set pieces through age (technology moves fast).