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[The Smiler] Train Speculation

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Let's face it, we are not dealing with the world's most technically advanced manufacturer here, and they have squeezed a heck of a lot of ride into £18m. That amount of inversions with a lap bar restraint is excessive and largely untested.

I was with Alastair in Team Lap Bars (chuckles) and we had some fun analysing all the images (which still seems completely lost on some, but there you go), however long term I would question the sense in using those restraints - they are just typical bog standard OTSR, and on a 14/15 tight looper like this, is that really good enough?

air pushed the boundaries, and as so, needed a unique restraint - heck, even Vekoma have reworked theirs lol!! For those reasons, I don't understand the fitting of the standard issue OTSR.
 
Alastair said:
CGM said:
B&M set a new standard for sitdown trains with Kumba. That was 20 years ago now and I'm not sure that these trains even meet that standard. Whilst everyone else is moving into lap bars and flexible vests, Gerstlaur keeps using its uncomfortable, restrictive moulded OTSR which are a product of the 70s.
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I don't think that's particularly true to be honest. I'll admit, I was the biggest advocate of lapbars on this but saying that "everyone else is moving into lapbars" is a bit over the top. What B&M coaster with inversions has lapbars? For that matter, what Intamin coaster with inversions have lapbars? Strangely enough, I'm pretty sure it's 0 in both cases. Gerstlauer, Maurer and Mack are the only major companies to produce lapbars on inverting steel coasters, and none have ever produced a coaster with upwards of 7 inversions - 14/15 is utterly unprecedented and perhaps lapbars were unfeasible?

And flexible vests? Available on B&M Wing Riders + fliers only? Would anyone in a million years have expected one on here?
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Vekoma use flexible vests on all of their new trains used on inverting coasters. Intamin coasters I would argue have been using a vest-based system for a while as well. In the case of Rita's restraints, the lapbar part does all of the restraining and the black strips on either side don't really do much. Rita's restraints aren't great but Intamin are beginning to introduce a B&M style flexible vest as seen on their Lex Luthor drop tower which is a variant of the Skyrush lapbar.

Why would the number of inversions affect whether a restraint is suitable? If a restraint can safely restrain a rider with little discomfort for a few inversions, it should be able to do it as many times as necessary. More inversions aren't an unknown quantity as far as safety is concerned. I don't see more inversions as boundary pushing, it's just taking what we know and adding more of it.
 
I don't get this whole 14/15 inversions is unprecedented for lapbars argument. If it can handle 1 inversion it can handle 15, end of. They're designed to withstand a lot of pressure and g-forces...it won't pop open after 7 inversions!

EDIT: what CGM said!
 
CGM said:
Alastair said:
CGM said:
B&M set a new standard for sitdown trains with Kumba. That was 20 years ago now and I'm not sure that these trains even meet that standard. Whilst everyone else is moving into lap bars and flexible vests, Gerstlaur keeps using its uncomfortable, restrictive moulded OTSR which are a product of the 70s.
Click to expand...

I don't think that's particularly true to be honest. I'll admit, I was the biggest advocate of lapbars on this but saying that "everyone else is moving into lapbars" is a bit over the top. What B&M coaster with inversions has lapbars? For that matter, what Intamin coaster with inversions have lapbars? Strangely enough, I'm pretty sure it's 0 in both cases. Gerstlauer, Maurer and Mack are the only major companies to produce lapbars on inverting steel coasters, and none have ever produced a coaster with upwards of 7 inversions - 14/15 is utterly unprecedented and perhaps lapbars were unfeasible?

And flexible vests? Available on B&M Wing Riders + fliers only? Would anyone in a million years have expected one on here?
Click to expand...

Vekoma use flexible vests on all of their new trains used on inverting coasters. Intamin coasters I would argue have been using a vest-based system for a while as well. In the case of Rita's restraints, the lapbar part does all of the restraining and the black strips on either side don't really do much. Rita's restraints aren't great but Intamin are beginning to introduce a B&M style flexible vest as seen on their Lex Luthor drop tower which is a variant of the Skyrush lapbar.
Click to expand...

Really? The last SLC to be constructed (at La Ronde in Canada) have restraints that look like this:

93qtd000h1hud7uf8a4pgg.jpg


That certainly doesn't look like a vest restraint to me. I found this link which is dated from 2007 and makes it look as if they dabbled with the vest system but never implemented it? And regardless of whether the Intamin restraints keep you in at the lap or not, they are still OTSR's and therefore still have strips going over the shoulder.

CGM said:
Why would the number of inversions affect whether a restraint is suitable? If a restraint can safely restrain a rider with little discomfort for a few inversions, it should be able to do it as many times as necessary. More inversions aren't an unknown quantity as far as safety is concerned. I don't see more inversions as boundary pushing, it's just taking what we know and adding more of it.
Click to expand...

It's not logical to suggest that if a particular type restraint is comfortable for a few inversions then it would be comfortable for 15. You simply can't say that, the forces are unknown to us and presumably only Gerstlauer will have any idea what the situation would have been.
 
Perhaps use of OTSRs are to do with cost?

Injection molding the restraints will be a much cheaper method of creating a restraint than creating something like a vest which uses that smart material foam stuff (no idea what it's called) which has to attach in two places, along with a lap bar style bit to go over the riders legs.

What's saved there can be put back into track and theming. I didn't find Saw too bad and so long as you keep your head firmly back against the headrest, you should have too much trouble with these.
 
Really? The last SLC to be constructed (at La Ronde in Canada) have restraints that look like this:
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That's not one of their new trains nor is it a new SLC. They only really use them on custom coasters with their newer track style. Have a look at the restraints on a Vekoma Stingray or Battlestar Galactica Cylon.

It's not logical to suggest that if a particular type restraint is comfortable for a few inversions then it would be comfortable for 15. You simply can't say that, the forces are unknown to us and presumably only Gerstlauer will have any idea what the situation would have been.
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The forces don't become more extreme just because more inversions are added. Instantaneous force will be similar through a loop whether it's the first inversion or the fifteenth. There's nothing about The Smiler's inversions that suggest they'll be particularly violent either, they're very drawn out and loopy looking.

As for whether lapbars would be comfortable with so many inversions, they have been used on coasters with a lot of hangtime such as S&S's Green Lantern and Premier's Superman with no complaint. Also, coasters with a lot of powerful ejector airtime such as EGF and Balder put a lot of pressure on your lap repetitively but I've never found these coasters uncomfortable.
 
What may not be noticed on that link is this question:

Richard Squidgy Whitfield: "WHY NOT LAPBARS? #headbanging #corkscrewmemories"
Alton Towers: "Hi Richard - have you seen the track?! Not one for lapbars!"
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Whoever is doing their social media, needs a coaster lesson clearly ;D - unless as mentioned, there is actually a good reason Gerst side why this couldn't happen.
 
Haha! My mistake! :D

I got a bit carried away there, getting all excited!

To be honest I never held out hope for lap bars. It would probably make it too mental for me anyway!


I'm not sure about certain design choices on the new train... Here's my thoughts:

Smiler logo looks odd 'cut out'.
Yellow on the restraints doesn't match the yellow on the logo (the yellow on the logo is more electric almost day glo)
Would have much preferred graphics stuck on instead of the yellow 'grill' effect - like Saw.

However I do think the optical illusion on the back of the head rests are a nice touch.
 
Looks like Screamscape aren't pleased by the trains:

2013 - The Smiler / SW7 - (3/29/13) The Smiler just took a huge step backwards in the popularity books this week, as the trains from Gerstaluer were unveiled at long last… and woe and behold… instead of the new lap-bar only restraint system, Alton Towers decided to installed the big bulky old-fashioned over the shoulder restraint system instead.
With so many inversions, perhaps the park felt a little more safe in going with “old reliable” instead of the newer system. Of course, with so many inversions… the riders may wish Alton Towers went with the lap-bar only system if they feel their heads are hitting the restraints too much.
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:p


Seems a bit of an OTT reaction. Ah well!
 
Screamscape have taken a very narrow - minded view.

Clearly there have been reasons for the decision. I'm no expert in how rollercoasters are designed, but perhaps decisions like this are made by the manufacturer or someone else other than Alton Towers.
 
If its a 'huge step backwards' for The Smiler to have OTSRs, then every coaster that doesn't have a lap bar must be a disappointment too. I really don't understand the negativity surrounding the lack of lapbars, am I really the only one whose glad they have OTSRs?
 
Guys, lets face it, we all sort of knew it probably wasn't going to be lap bars. It would most probably scare the general public away and would be a little too risky. Also, the trapped feeling that is gained from OTSRs compliments the ride perfectly. I am glad it is what it is but why are we all fussing over the restraints? This is going to be an amazing ride regardless of the restraints system.

EDIT:
Re-reading this I have realised it is a little bit harsh......sorry if I have caused offence!
 
It's a bit of a wild assumption that the general public dislike lap bars. Unless you have market research based around Alton Towers to hand then no one can know for sure (I mean this lightly so no one read this in a rude tone please :p).

Lap bars I think would be fine with the general public. It would in fact work in the rides favour as people are out for the next scariest thing you can find. They want to ride something that will make them brick themselves.

This might have been a choice by Alton Towers, they may have had no choice and Gerst told them what the ride must have - or Alton Towers could have indeed performed some market research on restraint types.

There's many ways it could have gone. But either way, the ride has got OTSRs, what will matter most now is how it actually rides!
 
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