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TBC: SW9 Speculation

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JAperson said:
I 100% agree and if they remove sub-terra building and queueline or even use it as the station that'd give them even more space.

I too think it will be launched. although there's quite a bit of room in forbidden valley, There's isn't a lot of height clearance and I'm not sure Merlin would want to do a nemesis and make a massive pit, although I suspect it will need some pits/trenches to run through. A launch makes that considerably easier as you don't need the lift hill, for height reasons.

I am quite confident in my prediction that there's a package deal with B&M and Merlin.

For all the reasons above, what about one of these surf coasters from B&M, to me it sounds like it fits the bill of an Alton Towers SW. It will be somewhat unique as at the time of this being built it would likely only be the second or third build and likely the first in europe. It's launched and should probably be able to fit is designed properly.
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I’ve seen a few speculation pictures of the Surf Coaster and I’m struggling to work it out. Is it essentially a next gen Stand Up coaster? I’ve never ridden a stand up but no one seems to have a good word to say about them!
 
s_g_k said:
I’ve seen a few speculation pictures of the Surf Coaster and I’m struggling to work it out. Is it essentially a next gen Stand Up coaster? I’ve never ridden a stand up but no one seems to have a good word to say about them!
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We don’t really know what the Surf Coaster is, to be honest. All kinds of rumours have been thrown around, from B&M’s take on a 4D coaster ranging through to a new-gen stand-up coaster or even B&M’s take on a multi-launch coaster!

The only way we’ll find out is if a park builds one; let’s hope SeaWorld Orlando builds the prototype for 2023 once Ice Breaker opens in February 2022! Partly because I’m curious about what the Surf Coaster actually is, and from a personal perspective; I’m hoping to head to Orlando in 2023, and I’d love to ride a B&M prototype as part of that trip!
 
The fact it's called a 'Surf' Coaster is why I think people may think it's a next-gen stand up coaster. However B&M have had so many issues with that ride type I doubt they will go back now. Standing up at 50 to 70mph just doesn't work for me either. I can see why they have converted so many into floorless coasters.

I can see SW9 being an RMC to be honest. They will have to get innovative with the track design of course due to the tree height but I reckon it could be done. I think everyone would be pleased with that too.
 
Benjsh said:
The fact it's called a 'Surf' Coaster is why I think people may think it's a next-gen stand up coaster. However B&M have had so many issues with that ride type I doubt they will go back now. Standing up at 50 to 70mph just doesn't work for me either. I can see why they have converted so many into floorless coasters.

I can see SW9 being an RMC to be honest. They will have to get innovative with the track design of course due to the tree height but I reckon it could be done. I think everyone would be pleased with that too.
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Wouldn't most people think - 'Oh it's like that Wicker Man thing innit'. I just don't see them doing it yet. Plus RMC's are unreliable and unpredictable, not a very good business move I don't think.
 
RMC don’t just make hybrid coasters; a Raptor might work! Or possibly a 2-across single rail coaster, as it’s been said that RMC is trying to develop one that is 2-across, but not the size of a T-Rex!
 
I hope some thought is given to the interaction the coaster has with non-riders and the sight lines etc for SW9, especially if it ends up in FV.

The likes of 13, The Smiler and to some extent Wicker Man are pretty much just behind fences and non-riders cannot get near them. Compare that to the way Nemesis, Oblivion and Air were designed and it’s night and day.

A coaster spanning the Blade/Ripsaw site has potential to use some of that landscaping/design that has been missing in more recent additions.
 
AT86 said:
I hope some thought is given to the interaction the coaster has with non-riders and the sight lines etc for SW9, especially if it ends up in FV.

The likes of 13, The Smiler and to some extent Wicker Man are pretty much just behind fences and non-riders cannot get near them. Compare that to the way Nemesis, Oblivion and Air were designed and it’s night and day.

A coaster spanning the Blade/Ripsaw site has potential to use some of that landscaping/design that has been missing in more recent additions.
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I would love a coaster that straddles the public paths in the way that, say, Galactica does for SW9!

However, there is one thing that I think makes that less likely, and that’s that in many parks abroad where newer rides have been built so that non-riders can get close to them, they’ve had to have netting or cages installed due to people throwing things at the ride or loose articles flying off, so maybe things aren’t built in this way anymore because safety is a bigger issue with this approach than it was in the 1990s? Especially considering the safety-conscious nature of Merlin additions post-Smiler, I’m unsure if they’d want to do a ride that opens up this risk.
 
Matt N said:
I would love a coaster that straddles the public paths in the way that, say, Galactica does for SW9!

However, there is one thing that I think makes that less likely, and that’s that in many parks abroad where newer rides have been built so that non-riders can get close to them, they’ve had to have netting or cages installed due to people throwing things at the ride or loose articles flying off, so maybe things aren’t built in this way anymore because safety is a bigger issue with this approach than it was in the 1990s? Especially considering the safety-conscious nature of Merlin additions post-Smiler, I’m unsure if they’d want to do a ride that opens up this risk.
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I was thinking about that. Plus has the legistation changed since Nemesis and co were built? Wouldn't be suprised if it changed to mandate netting and such for coasters that go over paths.
 
On a separate note; I wonder when SW9 might ultimately open?

Unless we get a pretty late planning application coming very soon, I’d say 2023 is unlikely, and to be honest, with Thorpe supposedly planning something big for 2024, I’m unsure about 2024 too. Currently, my personal guess is 2025. As things currently stand, I’m unsure if it’ll be in 2023 or 2024 due to both the lack of rumours/a planning application and major investments occurring at other Merlin parks (Chessington 2023, Thorpe 2024), but I certainly don’t think it’ll be any later than 2025.

Although with that being said, I guess Air & Colossus both opened in 2002, and ZUFARI & Smiler both opened in 2013, so it wouldn’t be completely out of the question for SW9 to open in 2024 alongside Thorpe’s big thing, especially if the two were different types of attraction and/or aimed at different markets (for instance, one might be a more family-orientated ride, while the other might be a big thrill ride).
 
Matt N said:
On a separate note; I wonder when SW9 might ultimately open?

Unless we get a pretty late planning application coming very soon, I’d say 2023 is unlikely, and to be honest, with Thorpe supposedly planning something big for 2024, I’m unsure about 2024 too. Currently, my personal guess is 2025. As things currently stand, I’m unsure if it’ll be in 2023 or 2024 due to both the lack of rumours/a planning application and major investments occurring at other Merlin parks (Chessington 2023, Thorpe 2024), but I certainly don’t think it’ll be any later than 2025.

Although with that being said, I guess Air & Colossus both opened in 2002, and ZUFARI & Smiler both opened in 2013, so it wouldn’t be completely out of the question for SW9 to open in 2024 alongside Thorpe’s big thing, especially if the two were different types of attraction and/or aimed at different markets (for instance, one might be a more family-orientated ride, while the other might be a big thrill ride).
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Although things change all the time so this may longer be the case but there has been indication that merlin has moved to 5 year capex cycle for a high investment at resort theme parks. With 5 resort theme parks it is likely one park each season going forward would get the high investment. I think would make sense Alton would get there’s in 2025 and then Heide in 2026 (they had their last high capex in 2019 vs 2018 at Alton). That could be completely wrong and Merlin have or might change tactics.

I just hope they start increasing budgets in the other years to allow some more medium sized investments at Alton like we used to get that. So in 2022/23/24 it would allow them to fix some of the issues in the line up, ie family rides and improve the food options around the resort.
 
Wickerman was 2018 so 2025 would be 7 year gap between major additions. Granted we've had Covid impact to consider but I'd still be shocked if they leave it as long as 2025.

Reckon we will get a new major addition no later than 2024.
 
Benjsh said:
Wickerman was 2018 so 2025 would be 7 year gap between major additions. Granted we've had Covid impact to consider but I'd still be shocked if they leave it as long as 2025.

Reckon we will get a new major addition no later than 2024.
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I kind of agree, but I just think at the moment, or even in the next 4 years, a new coaster is the last thing Alton Towers actually needs. I would take a truly world class dark ride, water ride, family ride over a coaster any day of the week.
 
Benjsh said:
Wickerman was 2018 so 2025 would be 7 year gap between major additions. Granted we've had Covid impact to consider but I'd still be shocked if they leave it as long as 2025.

Reckon we will get a new major addition no later than 2024.
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As I said, it isn’t out of the question that Merlin could do majors for two parks in one year; 2013 (Alton & Chessington), 2011 (Gardaland & Heide) and 2017 (Chessington & Heide) are all examples of years where Merlin has done more than one major in a year.
 
They might do it from a financial spending point of view, but I would be surprised from a marketing perspective.

Zufari and Smiler were aimed at completely different markets, and the other examples are parks in different countries that aren’t attracting the same guests.

A thrill coaster at both Thorpe and Alton in the same year would be an odd decision as it could end up splitting the guests and not maximising the return on investment.
 
AT86 said:
They might do it from a financial spending point of view, but I would be surprised from a marketing perspective.

Zufari and Smiler were aimed at completely different markets, and the other examples are parks in different countries that aren’t attracting the same guests.

A thrill coaster at both Thorpe and Alton in the same year would be an odd decision as it could end up splitting the guests and not maximising the return on investment.
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What if SW9 were to be a family coaster or alternative family ride of some form? Do you think it would work then?

Also, Air and Colossus both opened in the same year, and didn’t seem to have too much of an impact on each other’s success.
 
SW9 could be a family coaster, although I think thrill is more likely due to the time it has been since they added one.

Yes Air and Colossus did open in the same year, but that was 20 years ago and they don’t seem to have repeated it since, which could be relevant.

Anything is possible of course, but if it was me spending £40million on two rides, I’d probably do it a year apart from each other to make sure I maximise my chances of ensuring both are as successful as they can be.
 
Matt N said:
What if SW9 were to be a family coaster or alternative family ride of some form? Do you think it would work then?

Also, Air and Colossus both opened in the same year, and didn’t seem to have too much of an impact on each other’s success.
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Thorpe Park was in a very different place back then so isn’t really comparable to now I think. I don’t see the issue really with Alton getting a major new attraction the same year as Thorpe or Chessington but just think it is unlikely they would do that if the target audience is the same. Is 2024 major year for Thorpe confirmed? I thought that was just inferred from someone’s vague comment?
 
I just think Thorpe is in need of a big new ride, definitely thrill, probably best as a coaster. That is not what Alton needs now - it has 2 major issues that need rectifying: new permanent flats (thrill) but also more family rides - the issue right now is that for a child that is too old for CBeebies but too small for big thrills have only a handful of rides catering to them. Proper, good quality family rides are desperately needed. Gangsta Granny is a start, but more is needed. Duel is in a dire state, CRR is a shadow of its former self, Battle Galleons doesn’t have wide appeal, it only really leaves RMT, which is old and hardly world class anymore. While I personally would love more dark rides, a true new family coaster would be great (Thirteen is too dark a theme, Spinball and Wicker Man too thrill).
 
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