European Union

[Adam]

I was thinking about this earlier, and am interested in seeing the rest of TST's views on the matter.

Obviously, Britain is a member of the European Union and has been for a long time, however there have been an increasing number of calls for a referendum on this.

I personally am against the UK being in the EU for a number of reasons, most prominent of which is the money spent for various reasons towards the EU that, in the current economic climate, could be used in much better ways, for example going towards the NHS. I can see the point in the European Union, but if I had the chance to vote in a referendum I'd certainly vote for Britain to leave the EU.

But that's just my opinion on the matter, what's yours?

 

[pluk]

Why I'm against:

- It costs a fortune to run, any extra layers of bureaucracy cost a fortune and this is a huge one.

- Laws are made against the wishes and over the heads of our elected leaders and therefore us.

- The interests or our country are rarely going to be the same as the rest of Europe, we need to do what is right for us.

- Misuse of the European Human Rights Act is rife and we seem to be powerless to stop it.

- The only possible advantage I can see would be easier trading with the Euro, but quite rightly we don't have that currency, so what's the point of the rest of it?

 

[Martin]

Leaving would be suicide politically and economically.

Do you trust the current government to come up with a better version of the Human Rights Act? Because I don't.

It costs us money, it's undemocratic and it's a bureaucratic, but there's no way we can or should leave.

 

[Adam]

Leaving would be suicide economically.

How would it? The UK spends around £38 Million a day on the EU, imagine all the better things that money could be spent on.

Do you trust the current government to come up with a better version of the Human Rights Act?

You mean the Human Rights Act of 1998 that was set up by the British government, set up for the purpose of making in no longer necessary to appeal to the European Court of Human Rights?

no way we can leave.

To quote TEU Article 50: "Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements"

 

[pluk]

Leaving would be suicide politically and economically.

Do you trust the current government to come up with a better version of the Human Rights Act? Because I don't.

It costs us money, it's undemocratic and it's a bureaucratic, but there's no way we can or should leave.

In fairness I don't trust our government to do much but if I don't like what they do I can vote them out, what can we do about that lot?

I don't pretend to know enough about it to say if we would be better off financially or not, but it seems to me we put a lot in but don't get much out. If you can show me otherwise I stand to be corrected.....

 

[Sam]

Leaving would be suicide economically.

How would it? The UK spends around £38 Million a day on the EU, imagine all the better things that money could be spent on.

That's disingenuous, given that you don't mention the millions per day that come back into Britain from the EU, in the form of investment in infrastructure, cultural projects and the Common Agricultural Policy. That money isn't just thrown into a black hole, we definitely don't get more back than we put in, but it's pretty close.

One of the best things about the EU is the single currency on the mainland, and the ability to travel between European countries without border controls. My roadtrip earlier this year (including the UK, Belgium, France, Luxembourg, the Netherlands and Germany) would have been an absolute bloody nightmare if we had to change our money in every country, and go through passport control on every border.

 

[AstroDan]

Leaving the European union is as backward as scrapping G C S E s. It is imperative we remain within it.

The ease of money use is nothing to do with it, as far as h am concerned, the reasons are far more important than that.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

[Stelios]

I am swaying to us leaving due to us not being a full member with the Euro's opposite road and us with our confused measurements.

But the trade would fall, it was one of the main purposes for us joining and trade is one of the few things keeping us going. Unless the Euro completely collapses, I think we should stay.

 

[Simon]

Massive Europhile here.

We need to face facts: Britain isn't a superpower any more and hasn't been since 1945. Our former colonies have gone their own way and, rightly, don't feel they need us looking over their shoulder any more. The US are protectionist and as much as they like us culturally, don't want too cosy an economic relationship. The EU allows us to have the trading clout of the superpower without actually being one.

Many European laws have been of huge benefit to us in Britain and made our quality of life better. Consumer protection anyone? working-time directive? anti-monopoly laws? freedom to work in any other member state without restrictions? relaxed border controls? subsidised regeneration and infrastructure projects? cultural exchange and understanding? It's easy to forget (actually, it really shouldn't be easy to forget) that for most of the 20th century Europe was either at war or in a perpetual state of near-war.

Furthermore, the EU is democratic: you have MEP who you can vote for, but what the EU isn't is perfect. It's hugely beaureaucratic and some institutions with a lot of power are opaque. Money is wasted, but this is a project that has a lot of potential and I think we're better off being a part of it and with enough determination we can get it working much better.

By the way, all this talk about Human Rights is a red herring. The ECHR is not an EU institution, it is a Council of Europe institution separate from the EU. If we left the EU, we'd still be a signatory to the ECHR and a member of the Council of Europe. If the European Court of Human Rights is extending its powers then this is a judicial and political issue, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the Convention itself - a document whose principal architect was no other than that ardent Europhile and Champion of Diluting British Interests in the Name of Political Correctness Gone Mad, Winston Churchill.

 

[Alastair]

We aren't going to leave the EU, especially not after all the trouble we had joining it! It's too integral to our economy at the moment, especially being in a recession; the reduced trade tariffs that we face in comparison to non-EU or Commonwealth countries make being a member invaluable to maintaining even a facade of power.

 

[John]

I'm not such a Eurosceptic as I once was, but I'm still concerned by the idea of closer political and financial integration. I don't think either is in the UK's best interest and I don't think a one size fits all approach can work over such a massive and diverse region. That's not to say I'm an advocate for leaving the EU, but I'm not a fan of the idea of ever closer integration and the move towards a stronger political union.

Also, from a cultural point of view, I have never considered myself European. I think this is largely due to our island location and being physically separate from the rest of Europe.

 

[Tom]

I'm not addressing anyone here, but the fascist attitude of Britain's superiority belongs in the 1970s if not earlier.

I for one thank the EU for not allowing my employers force me to work as many hours as they wish.

This country cannot control things that Europe has little influence over - crime being the best example - so god help us if we were entirely standalone.

 

[Sam]

You can see why politicians on both sides of the house are hesitant to answer calls for an in-out referendum on the EU when this topic proves how hopelessly and dangerously misinformed people are, especially the blinder of thinking the European Court Of Human Rights is part of the EU.

 

[Squiggs]

But that seems to be part of how the system works. The way European and Local governments interact seems to be opaque at best.

Unless you are particularly interested in doing your research it is often very hard to tell what parts of our laws have come from Europe and which have not, and that does lead to a misinformed population (which is equally not helped by the fact parts of our press focus more on story telling then information giving).