• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

How optimistic are you about the UK industry?

Rick

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Crux
I've seen and have spoken to a few people from various parks and related companies over the Christmas break and everyone seems to be on a real downer, which is sad, but completely understandable given some of the things that have happened, or are happening.

Safety still seems to loom large in the thoughts of my immediate family and friends with whom I brave a cringey theme park conversation. I saw some old friends who I went to school with over Christmas who I regularly visited Alton with way into our twenties. They asked about Wicker Man and I was puzzled that they hadn't ridden it, but said they hadn't been back to the park since the Smiler incident and had no interest in doing so.

Theme parks seem to have dropped a little out of our culture and DNA, I'm not sure if that's related to the above, or just a continuation of the trends we saw develop 20 years ago, with Sunday shopping and different forms of entertainment looming large in the ever increasing number of alternative activities. Friends with families seem to be more interested in doing short duration activities, like Go Ape, trampoline parks etc than full days at a park. We've offered to take friend's sprogs with us to parks, because we know they won't get the opportunity to go otherwise, unless there's a school trip and they invariably suck.

Some enthusiasts will point to a lack of new attractions that would really 'grab' the public mood, but it feels increasingly difficult to do that, somehow. Plus, a lot of what is happening is a calculated response, rather than the cause of it. Wicker Man perhaps got closer to that than most things, but some real significant investments in the 2010s really haven't shaken things up as much as those who paid for them had wished them to.

Scanning in tons of brochures, maps and the like from the 80s and 90s - things being in the ascendency was very exciting, but it was never going to be like that forever - but just recently it feels we have transitioned from a winded down version of that, to something quite different and perhaps a little less exciting.

There are some grounds for optimism, with stuff in the works for various parks in 2020 and beyond. Flamingo Land's ten-looper and Paultons new land will be hits, no doubt.

The mood seems low - not only in some enthusiast circles, but much more widely than that. How do you feel about it?
 
Some, but not a lot. As you pointed out Paultons and Mingo are likely going to have a good 2020 and will be nice to get two new creds. But even then, they're both clones (one of them already existing in this country) and doesn't get me *too* excited...

But that's largely on a personal scale for me. Thinking a bit wider I feel the UK Industry is a shadow of its former self of what it was in the 90s and 2000s. I think again as you say a lot of theme park culture has been lost in this country, and I think it's because people see it as too expensive, the parks themselves seem to be underdeveloped and as a result the appetite is no longer there. It's sad really when you think about it.
 
Looking at the nine 'new' coasters for 2020
Legoland's Duplo Dino Coaster looks very underwhelming for such a large theme park
Storm Chaser is a clone however how many of Paultons' guests have been to Knott's Berry Farm?
Gulliver's World and Valley are both getting spinning coasters, I predict these will be similar to Twist and Joust at Gulliver's Land which I have tried and I think is quite boring.
Gulliver's Valley is getting a wooden coaster which is expected to be similar to Antelope at Gulliver's World. I think that would be good if Gulliver's didn't restrict themselves with the no adult groups rule.
Colin Glen in County Antrim is getting an alpine coaster that we don't know much about.
I think Flamingo Land's new 10 looper will be popular if it turns out smoother (and less painful) than Colossus, I would be surprised if it is rougher than Colossus.
Finally Clacton Pier is getting Codona's old Pinfari Zyklon and Southport is getting Gulliver's World's old Pinfari Mini Mega (the one that derailed last year). I am surprised those rides are still going given that Pinfari has gone bust, does anyone know who is providing spare parts for Pinfari nowadays?
 
I could take hours writhing a response to this but I'll sumerise for now:

The problem:
- Britain doesn't have any real Theme Parks. They are amusement parks with some impressive ride hardware and attempts at themeing. Sometimes a nearby flatride or outlet will share the same theme, but that doesn't make a themed land. For examples see Efteling, Europa, Phantasialand, PortAventura or even smaller parks like Tripsdrill that have a quaint undertone spread through the park.
While I'd argue that there's nothing wrong with amusement parks they arn't what the UK needs to rebuild brand faith in this industry. We need something that people want to visit as a family, something that's more than just rides. There's certainly interest as I'm constantly asked about the Kent Park and people are genuinely disappointed to hear that's got an uncertain future (theres interest because it offers something different).
And we have examples that worked. Kids lands such as Thomas and Pepper Pig were hugley sucessful because they offered this experience. As did Legoland back when it was new but that suffered from my second point.
- What we do have is tired. Its worm out and doesn't present quality. Theme Parks need to feel like a quality product for people to buy into them.

Am I optomistic for the future:
- This year, slightly. Merlin going private again and to investers I trust should be a good thing. All signs point to long term growth. However I am not as optimistic as I was 10 years ago. Public opinion has changed; rightfully so and the British public was a tough crowd to start with. 2010 felt like a fresh start, but by 2011 opinions were already turning sour.
 
I think there are definitely some other factors as to why the British park industry is not currently generating money as successfully as it once did that aren't necessarily down to the parks themselves. For example:
  • Foreign travel is cheaper and easier than ever; many British people would rather spend that extra bit of money and go to places like Florida, PortAventura or Disneyland Paris, to name just a few. I think that sort of "destination park" is perhaps more popular among the British public, which might be why the London Resort is getting so much media attention, but I think part of the appeal of these parks is that they're often in more desirable locations down to reasons such as climate (e.g. Florida) or proximity to world-renowned foreign landmarks and cities (e.g. DLP).
  • I also think that the shenanigans surrounding Brexit have probably had an effect. The worry and uncertainty surrounding the economic effect that Brexit will have on our country might have worried some spenders, meaning that they might be looking for more economical types of leisure.
However, I definitely think that there are grounds for optimism about the UK industry, and I am personally quite optimistic about the future. There have been some really good attractions produced as of late, such as Icon and Wicker Man, and parks like Paultons certainly show promising signs of growth over the next decade or so. Merlin's private ownership also has potential to produce some great things that really reinvigorate interest in our theme parks. Alton Towers does also seem to be steadily recovering from the attendance hit it took following the Smiler incident in 2015, so I could potentially see attendance hit pre-Smiler levels again within the next 5-10 years. When London Resort opens, that could also bring some real excitement to the UK industry.

So I do definitely see reasons to be optimistic about the future of the UK industry!
 
I think when you been to Disney and Universal no park in the UK comes close to them.
I went to theme parks with friends regularly to I was 25 but we all started to settle down, get married and have kids the big difference I still take my daughter to Alton Towers once a year with the free sun tickets and got a Drayton Manor annual pass as its less than 30 mins away.
The big difference from the 90s to now it felt that when my parents paid the entrance fee that was the only thing you had to pay for. There was more rides and you got better value for money. Now you got parking charges, Fast track tickets so unless you want to queue all day you got to be looking at a day out at a Alton Towers £138 for a family of 4 with 2 for 1 vouchers, parking and petrol if you live in the midlands. I know parents my age and children 10+ don’t want to queue over 45 mins each for every coaster but parents are not gonna spend £160 to jump the queues on 6 coasters.
I not to:
Chessington since 2008
Legoland since 2008
Blackpool since 2010
Thorpe Park since 2011
I would only go theses again if I factor in a weekend stay over to go Legoland and Chessington. My kids are 2 small for Thorpe Park.
Would like to go Blackpool for the lights and Merlin attractions.
 
Last edited:
I visited my first European theme park in 2017 (EP) and truth be told, I haven’t had a desire to visit a UK park since. Recent trips to Alton, Thorpe and Chessington have all disappointed - particularly compared to the high standards set on the continent.

I actually don’t think I’ve ever felt more pessimistic about UK theme parks to be honest - which is such a shame.
 
The big UK theme parks under Tussauds became greedy and complacent in the 2000s, which I think is partially responsible for where we are today.

Whilst parks like Europa and Phantasialand pushed on and built world class attractions, we got crap like Rita and Chessington got hardly any investment whatsoever.

You dont have to be an enthusiast to realise the decline in quality or investment.
 
You can get 30 euro flights out to Poland, Germany, Holland, Spain and Sweden and visit much better parks overall than anything the UK has to offer. My advice would be.....do that.
Agreed the Swedish parks are very easy to get to and the polish lot aren't much harder. All offer better quality or value than the UK parks
 
...there is an environmental concern with that though.
Speeding up the killing of the planet for leisure interests is a shadow on your soul, and another naughty look from Greta.

Back to the topic...
The industry has always been devoted to the ten to thirty age group.
They simply aren't as interested in rides the same...there are so many alternatives for entertainment now that simply didn't exist two generations ago.
Smiler crash.
Parental safety concerns.
Out of fashion with youth.
Cheap passes meant less filler rides, longer queues and less fun, a six flags race to the bottom
Blackpool investing millions for little (if any) return.
Most of the parks are tightening belts, God help us if we get a real recession in a year or so.
 
When I get a change to go out with Friends the age range I see in there is early 30’s to 60+. When the teens and 20+ go out they get drunk at someone house then get a taxi straight to a club.
There a few 17 to 22 years old in my work place that are proud to say how stoned they got the weekend like I do worry what the world will be like when my son and daughter hit 18.
I hope she will take my grandkids to themeparks as I will still take mine to they say there bored of them now.
 
I honestly don't think the weather helps one bit in this country. Just look around your city and towns where you live when the weather is really hot in the spring and summer. Everyone is in such a better mood and therefore more likely to go and spend money on a day out at a themepark. The problem is.....it doesn't last. Summer 2018 was amazing. It seemed to last for 4 months. The summer just gone, especially in the north, seemed to last 3 weeks. It was dismal by comparison.

I don't like being at a themepark when it rains anymore. As a kid I'd always put a brave face on but now I'm older I prefer to be a bit warmer and not wet throughout the day.
 
Blackpool has just published visitor figures for footfall, trains and parking 2019, and numbers were down...mainly due to the weather.
I love coasters in the rain, but that is mainly because it is a work/skive matter.
Mowing lawns in the rain, or riding coasters instead.
Not much choice at all really.
 
Looking at the last 15 years there isn’t a lot of grounds for optimism. There definitely were some highlights: Winter Wonderland and Paultons Parks are probably the biggest two. I hear people complaining about the cost of Winter Wonderland and about how busy it gets, but we might well have the greatest fair in the world now (I think it gives Munich’s Oktoberfest a good run for its money). I remember as a kid reading about rides like Olympia Looping, and never imagined we’d see them here in the UK. I first visited Paulton Park when they still had the Runaway Train. I had a great time, but it’s been amazing to see how far this park has come.

Aside from that the number of British water parks has steadily increased during my lifetime. We’ve seen two Lego Discovery Centres open. There has been a big rise in the number of Halloween scare events. Recently you could say that after a long period of decline Fantasy Island is back on the rise, and it’s good to have Dreamland back open. The new Gullivers Park opening will no doubt be a future highlight for the industry.

But there are a lot more negatives than positives. In my lifetime I’ve literally seen half the British parks close (Frontierland, Rotunda, Pleasurama, Ocean Beach, Spanish City, Crinkley Bottom, Camelot, American Adventure, Pleasureland, Loudon Castle…). This isn’t about whether we get a Paramount Park or an RMC. This is about whether we’ll have much industry left at all in another decade. A quick skim through Companies House will give little grounds for optimism, and it’ll take more than a spell of good weather to turn the UK theme parks around.

Some people don’t like the ‘celebrity culture’ the industry can sometimes have, but who are the great figures of the UK theme park industry? Who are the top designers or the top entrepreneurs (I’m not counting people who just inherited a theme park)? I can probably count on one hand the number of British parks I’d consider capable of building a ride that would genuinely excite the public. For someone looking to join the industry, which parks do have a reputation for being a good employer? How many parks do receive strong feedback on Trip Advisor? How many of our great rides are falling into disrepair and are likely to either need a major refurbishment (which most of their parks probably can’t afford), or will end up being scrapped?

There isn’t simply one cause of the industry’s problems. It’s hugely complex. And any solution will also have to be hugely complex to match.
 
According to the RCDB, 7 UK parks have opened since the turn of the millennium and 22 have closed (I excluded Dreamland from this figure because it reopened).
 
I think parents want value for money and I think that’s why places like Butlins are still going strong after 84 years. You pay 1 price and you can get all you eat breakfast and dinner, Entertainment all day, Swimming, Funfair, kids clubs and that’s what people want everything in the same place without spending lots on drinks. Families now save all there cash on holidays and when I went to Devon in 2018 I visited the Milky Way theme park and Watermouth Castle both cost me less than £40 each for the day. We visited Paulton’s Park in 2014 for my daughters 2nd birthday but cause it’s 2 and a half hours away without traffic we brought 2 day ticket with a night with breakfast at Holiday Inn with VIP meet and Greet of Peppa and George and food was roughly £500 for the weekend.
 
No kids of my own, but for twenty years I assisted in the children's home holiday, including the booking.
We could never afford Butlins, and the kids often asked.
Haven gave us a nice discount though!
Having chatted this topic in the pub at length with "normals", (we are all the general public), they are simply out of fashion with adults, and kids are not as interested as they were with so many distactions.
Fair weather activity only, modern kids are allergic to rain apparently.
Theme park UK death by rain and alternative indoor activity.
 
I think the entertainment industry is very different to the theme park heyday of the 1990s, right now if I wanted at least a half-day out I could do, escape room, Crystal Maze, Go Ape, VR experiences, water-park, zoo, theme park, shopping, cinema, etc. Also with so many other entertainment options available at home is there really a draw to go elsewhere anymore?

There are a lot more other options nowadays. Also the obsession with UK parks building hotels at their parks I don't think has helped. Alton Towers is a one-day park plus a water park so a hotel stay can be justified. Chessington and Thorpe are one-day parks, but the marketing makes you think you need a hotel stay so the visit looks more expensive.
 
Top