Nemesis: General Discussion

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skyscraper, 26th Oct 2019.

  1. DistortAMG

    DistortAMG TowersStreet Member

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    I guess you could think of him as the glue that brought all the different professions and disciplines together, to get a finished ride in a park, open to the public. Based off a concept, design and vision that he and others would have created. A huge task requiring huge talent.

    The good think about No Limits is you can very quickly and easily get a concept built and into 3d space, so that your idea can be properly understood by others. I think this is how JW got his ideas and whatnot across for projects, such as the Wicker man drop. Like others have said, he would have had a big role in getting the designs how he wanted, then other people doing to nitty gritty work. If you are spending how many million on a coaster, you are going to be able to get the profile and design exactly how you want. It is like when you buy a car, you choose the colour, but you do not paint it yourself.

    Credit where credit is due though, while other people did the technical work to make rides such as Air possible. I believe he was instrumental in the idea and overall concept for both B&M's Flying and Dive coasters. I am sure that the original plan for Alton was to have the flying coaster debut for 1998, but the design and concept development was no where near ready, so we got Oblivion instead. Which while having technical challenges of its own, were not as great as the flying coaster concept.

    I can see work happening on Nemesis very soon though, it needs it. I cannot see the park or Merlin for that matter, wanting to remove Nemesis, at all.
     
  2. Matt.GC

    Matt.GC TowersStreet Member

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    The way I see it is that a high quality, safe and sustainable creative project built for commercial gain like a rollercoaster or other theme park attraction needs 4 important skill sets.

    1. A creative mind that envisions an experience they want to create for people/guests/customers.
    2. Engineers and scientists who can decide whether or not the creative proposal is realistic/can or cannot be done or can find a new solution to the problems it poses in a safe and physically possible way.
    3. Money people, marketers and legal experts who decide if it is an affordable risk to take, can be marketed and will add value to the business and is legal and safe.
    4. The owners/shareholders/ management of the business who oversee the whole project and decide the overall business strategy for the best return on investment. They are the governance that rubber stamp the projects.

    The balance of these depends on the business, what it wants to achieve, the competence of the people in all 4 quartiles and their ability to be able to communicate with each other and work together.

    This is why you don't see £150million, 509ft tall cross valley B&M's with seat belt restraints themed to 18 rated movies (although Thorpe would consider such a proposal).

    The great thing about John is, he came from skill set 1 but has a great understanding of all 4 to some extent. He is able to come up with ideas that are unique, interesting, creative, marketable, technically realistic and cost effective. He is able to work with manufacturers, board members, customers/guests, marketing people, lawyers - hell even Staffordshire Moorlands council. That's what makes Nemesis what it is.
     
    Last edited: 28th Jun 2021
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  3. OilyWater

    OilyWater TowersStreet Member

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    A lot of fans just lump it all together so John Wardley gets over credited for doing everything. But at the same time the vagueness means his actual pivotal role doesnt really get appreciated. Then again, we're not really expected to know the exact details of how rides are created anyway, we only see a fraction of the picture.

    John can be credited with designing Nemesis' layout, he actually drafted it all as far as I know, going off data and rough calculations from B&M (the equivalent of designing a realistic roller coaster on NoLimits today).

    Then the technical designer (often Werner Stengel or the manufacturers own) designs the coaster technically, ie to actually build. So in the case of Nemesis, the technical design was done to John's layout with probably only minor physical changes.

    John also produced Tussauds projects from start to finish to made sure everything was being considered by the various teams designing/building the attractions. He was very good at it as the projects from that period are a testiment to!

    By Oblivion his role was being watered down and then gone by the time he quit in 2003. He's played only a minor role since, which is a waste of his great knowledge in my opinion.
     
  4. Skyscraper

    Skyscraper TowersStreet Member

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    He actually mentions in his autobiography that he felt very uncomfortable when doing press interviews as they always portrayed him as the sole creator, even though he was only one part of a huge team of people.
     
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  5. Matt N

    Matt N TowersStreet Member

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    I know that was certainly the case with the Merlin projects (e.g. Thirteen and Smiler), as those were mostly led by Candy Holland, but he had a more leader-type role in the Tussauds projects, especially earlier ones like Nemesis.
     
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  6. jon81uk

    jon81uk TowersStreet Member

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    the point is more that he is quite humble and accepts that most things are a team effort. Whereas some people will say look at the amazing thing I designed/created even if they were just the project manager and there is a whole team behind it.
     
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  7. tayspru

    tayspru TowersStreet Member

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    John Wardley has done incredible work for the park, but I do think the cries to bring him back for every SW do a disservice to the newer creatives at Merlin.

    John Burton seems to be the lead on newer attractions, he certainly was for GG. Given some of the concepts that he came up with in the infancy of his career in the RCT3 days (ImagineerJohn) I am confident he would do a fantastic job with a large budget attraction if given the same creative control as JW. What these huge projects need is someone with a unifying vision, not a team of analysts looking at research and trying to give the GP what they think they want from a coaster.
     
  8. Matt N

    Matt N TowersStreet Member

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    Wait, John Burton was ImagineerJohn? The one who did things like that amazing recreation of Thirteen?

    I agree with your sentiment, though. I also think Bradley Wynne, the creative lead behind Wicker Man, could have gone on to do great things had he stayed on at Merlin.

    In fairness, however, I don’t think John Wardley had anywhere near as much input into Thirteen & The Smiler, and even less input into Wicker Man. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Candy Holland the creative lead behind Thirteen and Ben Dowson the creative lead behind The Smiler?
     
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  9. Ethan

    Ethan TowersStreet Member

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    Just build an intamin blitz and I'll be happy
     
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  10. Ethan

    Ethan TowersStreet Member

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    Nemesis reliability this week has been shocking. Hope they resolve whatever the issues are soon so this downtime doesn't keep reoccurring
     
  11. Danscott22

    Danscott22 TowersStreet Member

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    There must be something in the "reliability water" because Rita, Thirteen, Galactica and The Smiler have all had more downtime than I've seen in a while too.
     
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  12. Rob F

    Rob F TowersStreet Member

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    Longer working days taking there toll on the ride hardware,+ less hours for maintenance
     
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  13. Skyscraper

    Skyscraper TowersStreet Member

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    Not to mention the recent thunderstorms too.
     
  14. OilyWater

    OilyWater TowersStreet Member

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    "Creative lead" is part of it but is a distinctly different role to the role John Wardley played in the projects back then.

    John Wardley is by far the most experienced so I dont think it's a disservice, I think it's just using the best knowledge available. You can still use creative teams to do design and idea input, as happened on all John's projects back in the day too.

    I think it shows that it doesnt matter who the individuals are anymore, who are probably trying their best, Merlin's projects have mostly all turned out the same results in the last 10 years.

    You occasionally get the odd great moment but there's a clear track record. I think it takes a bigger change than just individual people to sort that. Case in point, John Wardley was brought into projects in the last 10 years asked to sort things out, but even he wasnt able to get his voice heard?

    So that's at least one reason why a Nemesis of today wouldnt really happen, whereas those kinds of new rides are happening more at Phantasialand etc now.
     
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  15. andeyhart

    andeyhart TowersStreet Member

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    It's been down and up over the past three days. The ride that's really been struggling is Rita.
     
  16. Danscott22

    Danscott22 TowersStreet Member

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    I mean idk if we can say longer hours = less maintenance is the problem here. Half term when the park was 10-8 there weren't this many reliability issues. It's probably just general technical problems for both, which are taking longer to resolve.
     
  17. Loui Richards

    Loui Richards TowersStreet Member

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    I think they bought a new piece for something and cus it’s important it causes a lot of issues , maybe something to do with a the wiring and stuff between sensors as there seems to be a lot of stoppages on the lift suggesting maybe the sensors on the brake run haven’t reached the operating panel causing the next train to stop as a precaution idk. Just it’s not been this unreliable in at least 6 years. crazy!
     
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  18. Ethan

    Ethan TowersStreet Member

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    God poor nemmy it seems to be struggling at the moment. Shut yesterday and still hasn't opened today, I wonder what the issue is
     
  19. Steve74

    Steve74 TowersStreet Member

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    Don't forget unless there's engineers on site it doesn't have to be something wrong with Nemesis itself. With Covid isolations and recruitment issues, it could be a last minute staff shortage
     
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  20. Danscott22

    Danscott22 TowersStreet Member

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    I mean it's probably technical issues. Every other ride is open bar Nemesis, so I can't see it being a last minute staff shortage.
     
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