Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skyscraper, 26th Oct 2019.
I hope not too, I can't imagine walking into Forbidden Valley and not hearing that incredible roar!
Of course they could not fulfil the fabrication themselves, B&M have never manufactured anything, they are a consulting engineering company. All manufacturing has always been outsourced.
The information you give, suspiciously sounds similar to various enthusiast websites across the net, which for many obvious reasons, may not be the most accurate. It is true Walter and Claude were impressed with the work and asked the company to manufacture track. But there is no evidence to suggest this was all track. - There is a discrepancy here because some places say all track, but most say the US track,
Like I said, the US plant picks up the slack when others are rammed with work. The plant is not just been used for USA, but it is the primary USA one and certainly cannot fulfil the orders on it's own when the books are full.
Have you physically looked at the size of the Claremont plant, on Google Maps? It is big, but it is not that big. B&M have, on some years pumped out 6 to 7 coasters, track fabrication is a complex and long process. Given the track length of these rides, and knowing a bit about steel fabrication, it is pretty easy to conclude that the sort of work involved there is far beyond the capability's of such a plant on it's own, when the books are full. That nicely brings us on to the other point, Claremont were a much smaller company, employed much less people and had a much smaller fabrication shop until they moved to their current premises in 2004. B&M were still pumping out those high numbers of new rides before then, so the argument of it all coming from an even smaller plant before then becomes even less plausible. They have only grown to their current size, fairly recently, and a long time after B&M were must have rides.
Then you have the smoking gun, what someone posted a few pages ago. An interview / tour of Claremont where the employee specifically states they make track mainly for the US market. You do not get much closer to the source for information than that.
I was also looking at US import records all publicly available information on the net - I encourage you to go and have a deep dive, and it does get deep! A very very high amount of large and heavy imports regularly come from Italy on behalf of B&M going to the Claremont plant. Italy is where it is rumoured B&M have fabricated track from for a long long time. The size and weight of some of the shipments would certainly suggest it is track, and compared to the size and weight of the many shipments that come from many other European countries to Claremont, they are much larger and heavier. There is no way they will be buying raw steel from Italy, they do not really export it, it is not an industry they are really in as a country. Whatever is coming from Italy is already fabricated. I doubt it is going to be supports either, as if they were finished, they would ship straight to the coaster site. My money is on fabricated or partially fabricated track being shipped off to Claremont for finishing. Using Claremont, the company which has impressed Walt and Claude the most, for the final QA process on track fabricated else where.
I am sorry, but the whole B&M make all their track in the USA is based on a single possibly mis typed 'interview' or Chinese whisper of 'what Claude said'. Without any real solid evidence or merit.
There is strong physical evidence in many different forms and from many different directions, some I have outlined above that suggest the complete opposite.
That is the point I was making...There is no planned refurb...it is rumoured every year.
Last time I rode Nemmy was 2019 as I haven't visited the park in 'Covid times' but I don't think it rode badly at all. Certainly didn't feel like it needed a huge refurb to me.
It might be due to my size (6ft5) but I don't find it rough at all. Does it give a bit of a rougher ride on the restraints for shorter guests?
I'm just below average height and it doesn't offer a rougher ride because of my height (I'm just over 5,9). It's not shockingly rough, I've just found the inversions ear bashers the last few years. The best remedy for this is to completely ignore the advice and hold my head forward with my neck tense then I'm fine.
I think it's more of a case of the fact it used to be butter smooth. Now it's not but it's certainly not unbearable by any means.
Yeah not really, I'm 4'11" if you can believe that it doesn't really cause me any issues. Rita and the Smiler seem rougher.
So perhaps there's no issue and a refurb is neither needed nor in the pipeline? (In which case what do we talk about? )
I think @Matt.GC and @NuttySquirrel have summed up my thoughts pretty well. I’m about 5’9.5”, and I wouldn’t consider Nemesis’ headbanging a major issue by any means, more a minor niggle. I would prefer it if the headbanging wasn’t there, as I don’t love having sore ears, but it’s hardly a dealbreaker for me; I still really enjoy the ride. I’m not sure it’s necessarily age-based either, as at Thorpe today, I noticed that Inferno does a similar sort of thing despite being 9 years younger than Nemesis. Maybe it’s just inherent in B&M inverts by design?
Also, I wouldn’t bet money on a retracked Nemesis necessarily being any smoother than the current version. I rode Hulk around 3 weeks after it had opened back up from its huge retrack, and while I wouldn’t have called it rough per se, it certainly wasn’t smooth for a B&M coaster that had just been fully retracked, with a bit of a rattle and some light headbanging in places, and I didn’t notice a huge difference in smoothness compared to the original. I’d actually go as far as to say that the freshly retracked Hulk was at least as rough as Nemesis than its current state, possibly rougher!
I've only experienced headbanging once on Nemmy, and that was during my very first ride back in 2018. Not had any since then!
For reference, I am 6ft 2.
The rumoured refurbishment wouldn’t be because the ride is rough, it has more to do with the structural integrity of the ride itself.
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Also, to cite another invert; the now defunct Dragon Challenge coasters at Islands of Adventure both had headbanging to a notably worse extent than either Nemesis or Inferno; the Chinese Fireball side in particular gave me a bit of a headache!
Montu is only around 2 years younger than Nemesis and I'm sure does a lot more work being open all year.
Kumba (although not inverted) is also a all year round coaster and is a year older than Nemesis.
Does anyone know if either have had any major track work/replacement ?
(I love Kumba by the way, up there with Nemesis as one of my favourite coasters).
I'm not sure about either of those having track work however when can look at hulk for an example. Nemesis might need track work before Kumba and Montu because the supports are going to be in a worse position due to the pit location. I imagine most of the track could keep functioning for a long time to come however the supports are likely going to become an issue as they rattle themselves to pieces and destroy the rock faces they sit on.
I rode Nemesis for the first time and Kumba only a few weeks apart in 94. I loved Kumba and look forward to getting back on it after 27 years. I'd be interested to see how it's holding up these days. After a little research, I don't think it has had any major work done. Nemesis is a completely different kettle of fish however but I still wouldn't say it's "rough". I reiterate that I don't think any potential retracking is imminent.
Nemesis isn't butter smooth anymore, but it's still way smoother than the smiler and many many much newer coasters.
Interesting to hear about the supports being the thing needing replacing rather than the track, would towers/Merlin just replace them when the time comes and keep the track?
Any substance to tales of shaking supports rattling to pieces and destroying rock faces???
First I have heard, all seems very solid and secure after all these years.
Tbf given the compact layout of the smiler I don't think it was ever going to be smooth
I was more making a educated guess based on the way nemesis is designed. Surely it's natural that eventually with the way it's build the constant vibration of the supports would create damage to the rocks. Perhaps my original post came across more dramatically, realistically nemesis would be fine without a refurbishment but I suspect if they are going to want to keep the ride in the long term doing some substantial work to track and particularly to supports would assist in this.
I think people forget that we also have a larger temperature range here between the coldest of winter and the warmest of summer. Much wider range than say, Florida. That will put more strain on the structure over time, due to the larger cycles of contraction and expansion.
Was on park Th-16-Sep, Nemesis front row was smooth as butter. Back rows not so much.
But, my goodness, has the hardware and surrounding areas aged or what. Rust everywhere on the tracks and restraint 'veneers' that are flaking and peeling; weeds everywhere on the areas surrounding the track. Musty air in the boarding station and restraint bars I didn't want to touch.
There was a school trip and loads of teenagers though overall park was quiet including this ride which only had a waiting time of around 4-5 mins front row and walk-on on the back rows of the ride.
The "rust" on the track is actually paint- it's deliberately like that as part of the theme.
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