[2024] Nemesis Reborn: Construction and Speculation

[Matt N]

Yeah that's basically where I'm coming from. It was a lot easier when the pit was newly blasted and fresh. One season there's a grassy knoll with a Schwarzkopf shuttle loop in front of it, the next a disaster has struck with a monster emerging from beneath the surface. There's blood running around it, a bus has been dragged in, nearby buildings have been damaged.

I do forget some times that some of you have never experienced Nemesis as designed. I'm just hoping that what gets altered is not the overall theme, just more theming. I don't know, perhaps they could chuck a skeleton back in that metal cage by the stall turn like they used to at Scarefest to make it feel like the villagers used to use sacrifices to the monster? Surely there's a specialist in closed water systems somewhere who can restore the blood waterfalls? Maybe that book key thingy makes an appearance as an Easter egg? Maybe some building ruins around the top of the pit? It's essential that they cut back all the foliage hiding the views of the final inversion, and indeed the weeds around the pit and anything else that hides parts of the ride from view.

I can understand why they're inventing some story and introducing guns and helicopters to gain people's attention, even if I think it could have been done in a different way. I want to grab people's attention to ride something so cherished. But I really don't want them to turn into a military organisation Vs a monster kind of theme on opening. In 2024, if these additions are shipping containers, lab tents, mini gun turrets and armed people shouting at you then I think it'll be a huge mistake.

I agree that I think narrative can go overboard, particularly on coasters, if pushed too heavily, but I think there is a balance to be struck. I personally like my themed coasters to have a clear, cohesive theme with some nice theming elements and a little bit of a narrative (whether that’s told explicitly, such as through a pre-show, or inexplicitly, such as through theming in the queue).

The sort of thing you mention is exactly the type of thing I’m on about. I’m not necessarily talking about major thematic changes, as I think they got most of the big stuff like the basic concept and the monster bang on to begin with. I simply think the ride would benefit from a few theming elements possibly being added around the pit or along the circuit, as well as some minor details in the queue to help set the scene a bit better.

I’d also love it if they could overhaul the station; given that the station exterior is the monster itself, I always found it a bit odd that you went into a relatively minimally themed metal box. With Merlin’s recent record on coaster stations, I think they could do something really good with it. If I were given free rein, I’d change the station so it looked like you were “inside the monster”, with tentacles and things on the walls instead of plain metal, themed lighting to darken it slightly (think along the lines of what Wicker Man has), smellpods, and maybe even some sound effects to simulate the ceature’s breathing or heartbeat. I think something similar to that would be epic myself!

 

[Rob]

I thought Alton Towers did a brilliant job on Sunday evening. Right from the announcement after the fireworks through to the activity around Nemesis in Forbidden Valley, they really gave it a great send off.

The queue did close earlier than it needed to which meant our group were lucky to get on (we had bar and toilet stops between the fireworks ending and getting to Nemesis). But by closing it early it did prevent any mad rush at the end. I can't quite believe that the queue from well out of the entrance, backing up almost all of the way to Sub-Terra, was not even an hour. Of course, no fastrack or RAP (once these had also been closed) helped significantly.

Because the queue did run off so early, they were able to just leave the front row queue open at the end. So I waited an extra 5-10 minutes or so to have my final ride on the front row. Jus the 4 of us, the rest of the train was empty. Quite surreal!

Farewell for now, Nemesis.

 

[Josh555]

I'm no purist and I accept that change needs to happen, I didn't mind the repaint they did of the station and track as an example. They'll need to make Nemesis slightly different to make it marketable and I get that. I'm concerned about the theme itself rather than the physical theming. This Phalanx stuff is more Sci-fi whereas I always considered Nemesis to have a horror theme.

I reject the idea that there needs to be some sort of elaborate "story" to draw interest in a rollercoaster. Nothing wrong with books, comics and on park Easter eggs to keep fans and geeks happy, who doesn't enjoy that stuff? But Forbidden Valley is a mysterious site where a monster burst out of the earth and destroyed everything. Guests would always enter, see the weird standing stones, carnage everywhere, a giant monster, and an impressive looking terrain coaster roaring in and out of tunnels in a rock pit filled with blood. Job done, story told, immersion achieved. Want more? Buy the book.

This video is what I always associated with the loose theme of Nemesis (1:10 to 4:10, you'll have to excuse the inclusion of Batman the ride as Nemesis wasn't open at the time of filming). As you can see, no armoured vehicles, no helicopters, no guns, no secret organisations, no copy and paste cartoonishly sinister blokes. Just a legend of a mysterious site with a life form beneath it. It's simple and effective and doesn't need anything else. Tell me this isn't preferable to all this Phalanx stuff?
From: https://youtu.be/F_euoQP8CvM


Besides, don't those people in boiler suits look strikingly similar to those of the original Oblivion theme? X Sector is the parks mysterious organisation/sci-fi area. With a Dark Forest, a Gloomy Wood a Haunted Hollow and a ride themed to a haunted tree branch I think the park is starting to feel like it's either being taken over by creepy trees or sinister Sci-fi organisations. Oblivion and X Sector were themselves victims of shoehorned in "Ministry of Joy" stuff with silly attempts to explain why they're in the same area as the Smiler, when the latter probably would have fit in just fine without the need to provide a "rational explanation" (excuse the pun).

Sometimes, as is the case with Nemesis, saying less is saying more. Nemesis, Air and Thirteen have always left their themes open ended. They have a premise to justify why they exist, you make up the rest. It's one of the genius things I've always liked about Wardley and his designs.

But if this nonsense is the price we have to pay for Nemesis to live on, then so be it I guess. Outside of building hype and putting on a good event last night (which could have been done with the original theme, although I suspect that Einstein looking bloke from the video wouldn't be around to lend his services 28 years later), I don't see why these military people need to be shoehorned in to the theme of Nemesis. For all we know, I could have just wasted my time writing this and come 2024, the shouty people with body armour and boiler suits will either be gone or banished to the NST building.

I get where you're coming from with this but I don't agree entirely.

I'm 35, I went to Alton Towers in 1994 when Nemesis opened (albeit I was too scared to ride it,) and eventually did ride it in 1998, so I had the full experience of the ride in it's heyday and do agree with the (pretty inarguable) point that it has been allowed to deteriorate a fair bit since then.

I think what Alton are going for with this is a theme which develops over time, and if you imagine a scenario where an alien had somehow broken through the surface of the ground and was allowed to exist indefinitely in a public area, it's a near certainty that there would be a military presence there fairly quickly, which presumably was part of the logic in creating Sub-Terra. Now of course you can make the totally valid point that the theme of a ride can exist in isolation and that there is no need for it to organically develop (and in reality they rarely do,) but I don't necessarily have a problem with them doing that with Nemesis and I do think it's quite cool that they've developed this organic and progressive story. The thought of Forbidden Valley swarming with Phalanx operatives for the 18 months whilst the ride is down would be, I think, really cool and certainly better than the alternative of the ride just being down and out of action with no explanation.

I absolutely agree with your later post that turning the ride into an alien version of the ending scenes of Godzilla would be a huge mistake (although I don't really see any evidence that they're going to do that,) I suspect that the Phalanx presence is more to do with explaining (and marketing) the ride's closure whilst further embellishing the existing IP (and hopefully as a prelude to re-opening Sub-Terra) rather than an indication that the ride is going to take a fairly dramatic thematic turn to a humans vs aliens battle.

As for what I'd like to see for the ride when it eventually does re-open? I'd quite like onboard audio, perhaps some effort made to make the alien more 'life-like' - animatronics would be cool, maybe a tentacle that moves as you do the barrel roll over the station (unlikely I grant you but I'm going to mention it because my sole criticism of Velocicoaster is that the raptors don't move), I'd like to see the river of blood restored (and if they genuinely can't do that then something equally impressive instead of it,) I'd like to see mist effects on permanently with pinkish lighting so that it looks like it's coming from the alien. As others have referenced, some touch ups to the interior of the station would be cool and for the love of god get rid of that cheesy 'Nemesis' line that you hear as the train is departing.

What I will say is that I think you may have to make your peace with the Phalanx being a presence around Forbidden Valley, I do think they're probably hear to stay (and again, hopefully that is more NST focussed than Nemesis,) but I don't think that their presence de facto means helicopters and machine guns, I just think it may be as simple as 'it's better than staff wearing generic Alton Towers uniform'. The story is now, and has been since 2012, that the Phalanx have kept Nemesis restrained, so by making them a physical presence around the ride they're only reinforcing the story which they created in 2012 (and again, are hopefully returning to by re-opening NST).

 

[Poisson]

The half trains at the end were great. I got my final ride on back right (best seat in the house) and I think we had 3 in row 8, 2 in row 7 and 4 in row 1, maybe a couple in row 2.

 

[dazza4783]

There's also nothing to stop them putting future applications in for new structures if necessary.

I suspect that may be the case, especially with the rumours of a pre-show. Also seeing what they did with themeing structures on the likes of Wicker Man, The Smiler, Colossos I think they may take this opportunity to give Nemesis something similar. Whether it be something added to the Monster itself, or some completely new structure.

 

[QTXAdsy]

I know this might sound like I'll get pelters for saying this but compared to the main theming structures on Wicker Man and Smiler, Nemesis' station being the beast itself looks a little puny in comparison. Don't get me wrong, back in the day the actual structure itself would have been impressive but since then it has started to look a little underwhelming and after what Merlin have done already with those two rides, who is to say that they might give the monster itself a makeover to make it sound alongside them? The break run itself could be covered up as it is rather bare IMO.

Maybe making it a little bigger to give it this huge sense of scale of how big it really is or have maybe the legs of the beast attached to both sides of the pit as if it is trying to get out or perhaps when you are going into the second inversion have the train go through one of the claws which could act as a clever leg chopper element and maybe have its eyes either in a glowing green which would be great for night time viewing of have them as working animatronics scanning the those around it?

But honestly, I'd like to see the pit stripped back to being bare again to give the sense of scale and ofc the blood water to return. Actually, what is the actual design of the beast, was it supposed to be a giant crab or spider or something?

 

[James564]

As others have referenced, some touch ups to the interior of the station would be cool and for the love of god get rid of that cheesy 'Nemesis' line that you hear as the train is departing.

That has already gone hasn't it? In hindsight I don't think I've heard any of those corny "Nemessisssssssss...!" taglines in the station for a couple of years now.

 

[Alsty]

Probably the 90s tape deck has finally given up the ghost

 

[Rob]

That has already gone hasn't it? In hindsight I don't think I've heard any of those corny "Nemessisssssssss...!" taglines in the station for a couple of years now.

I can't be certain but yes, I think they have gone also. Certainly don't recall hearing them this season at all.

 

[Josh555]

I’ve not been this season so that’s probably why! Good news anyway.

 

[Tim]

I know what I'd do with this opportunity to improve Nemesis and it wouldn't involve changing the ride or theme at all. The story of an alien monster landing on earth and being pinned down with steel is really easy to understand through visuals alone. But there's one thing that can be done now that was very hard back in the 90s. Make the monster feel alive!

I'd likely start over by demolishing the old monster to replace it with a near identical version with 3 major difference:
1. More life like materials. Get someone in like Universal Rocks that can really sell that the structure is organic (even if rock/shell like).
2. Make it move! Nothing complicated, (focus on reliability) but technology now can really sell the idea of a best pinned down. Have lighting/rear projection in the eye stalk, so they can scan the crowd. Have the exposed flesh sections slightly move as if breathing. Move the spines along its back. Mist and water dripping to sell breathing. Along with subtle audio.
3. Instead of a pre-show extend the monster back over the maintenance shed and break run. Make the inside feel alive like the outside and then add a break-run scene in the new enclosure area. It can last as little or long as needed, to make it feel like you've been absorbed by the beast.
It'd do a lot to add to an amazing ride without doing anything to change what's already there. That and a lot of general improvements.

 

[ChristmasPud]

I think rather than everyone overthinking it, if Nemesis reopened looking how it did brand new all the fans would be saying how great and fresh it looks. Add some extra touches, update the audio, hopefully even bring back the original better logo and everyone would be happy.

 

[Benzin]

I think rather than everyone overthinking it, if Nemesis reopened looking how it did brand new all the fans would be saying how great and fresh it looks. Add some extra touches, update the audio, hopefully even bring back the original better logo and everyone would be happy.

Cue the IMAScore version.


Hopefully not, listened to the music last night and it's still so good. Unless there was a modernisation of it but even then.

 

[ChristmasPud]

@Benzin Yeah the music is class and timeless, the sound system could be updated or maybe the music production updated as long as it retained what makes it great

 

[Josh555]

Personally I won’t consider it an effective retracking unless they include staff with guns marching around the queue shouting at people, perhaps assaulting the occasional passer by.

Imagine being in an area patrolled by police in a Tory governed Britain and you’d have a fair idea of what I’m getting at.

 

[Steve74]

I can't be certain but yes, I think they have gone also. Certainly don't recall hearing them this season at all.

They were just awful. Hated them with a passion. Completely ruined the atmosphere of the station. Nemesis's equivalent of "Scream if you want to go faster" for annoyance factor.

They were playing earlier this year but were conscious they'd gone at Scarefest and this weekend. May even had gone at Oktoberfest but can't be sure.

 

[jon81uk]

My quoted posts are from a few pages back, but the theme discussion is ongoing…

I think Nemesis is "impressing the uninitiated" because of the roller coaster itself. The roller coaster itself is still clearly delivering for people, hence why the park have chosen to retrack it. Ultimately, Nemesis for most people is a roller coaster, however well themed it is, and the roller coaster itself is undeniably very popular.

I won't deny that the pit is a hugely impressive feat of engineering. The monster is also a nice centrepiece. However, I think the ride lacks the finer details that some of the newer rides (e.g. Wicker Man) have to clearly convey the narrative to the first time rider and take the storytelling onto another level. I could just be biased having never ridden it in 1994 and only having seen it in its modern day form, sans blood waterfalls and such. Nonetheless, I do feel that the ride could do with some more little details to help convey the narrative more clearly, as I do feel that it possibly falls short in this regard in its modern day form compared to some of the park's other rides and other rides at places like Thorpe Park.

You mention the finer details of Wickerman to convey the story, but if you remove the pre-show they are actually very similar. Both have large centrepiece figures, just Nemesis’ is the station, both have some form of entrance feature and other smaller items around them like torches and banners on Wickerman or the standing stones on Nemesis. Nemesis also has (or had in the case of the Nosh bus) several themed vehicles around. I don’t think there is a huge difference in theme level if you discount the pre-show on WM.

This just proves it that UK citizens don't want American like narrative attractions. We like the simple theme factor if the ride by how it looks and how it's executed.

Are you not familiar with Six Flags and similar parks? A majority of American attractions are not narrative led. It’s only really Disney and Universal doing that.

For a start, why would John Burton (Towers' Creative Lead) be involved if it was just a like-for-like track replacement?

Why wouldn’t the current creative lead want to be photographed next to the creative lead from 30 years ago?

 

[LLCorkscrew]

NEMESIS. Once chained, now untameable.

I love the previous announcements recorded by (I presume) Tussauds Studios - the Ents team re-recorded a few of the operational ones in-house a few years ago ("Nemesis is experiencing a temporary delay, and has ceased operation...") and they weren't as good.

It'd be amazing if Alton Towers released a Nemesis media file, and come to think of it, a Duel media file, for enthusiasts, perhaps with soundtracks, sound effects, announcements, and any new soundtrack. I'd pay for that!

 

[Skyscraper]

With regards to the soundtrack, I wouldn't say no to an instrumental IMAscore rework. They did a short one as part of the 2015 Fireworks soundtrack, which is sublime.

(3:15 in the video)


From: https://youtu.be/-jbZJVROgCs

 

[Alsty]

I love the previous announcements recorded by (I presume) Tussauds Studios - the Ents team re-recorded a few of the operational ones in-house a few years ago ("Nemesis is experiencing a temporary delay, and has ceased operation...") and they weren't as good.

Surprisingly I can't seem to find any of the announcements except this one which is the extended breakdown announcement. This is the voice I remember and wasn't aware it had been re-recorded

From: https://youtu.be/gj04Za8WQi8