Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

[Matt N]

The only company that have really got the RAP situation under control is Disney - particularly in the USA.

Over there, they are not even allowed to ask for medical proof of any disability / hidden disability / diagnosis. Go to Guest Services there any they will simply ask "tell me how we can make your day easier?" (Note the use of the word "easier").

So you need to use a wheelchair - not a problem, you can queue as normal as pretty much all of their queue-lines are wheelchair accessible. You wait the exact same time length as everyone else.

So you have a hidden disability (e.g. anxiety / ADHD etc) that makes standing in a crowded queue-line difficult. You get a card to show at the Fast-Pass entrance where a Cast Member will scan a "chipped" card that will allow you to return and enter via Fast-Pass entrance at the current queue time -10/15mins. You will end up waiting for pretty much the same time as everyone else, but can spend your waiting time in quieter / less cramped environs.

Spot the common feature - everyone waits pretty much about the same length of time, irrespective of their personal circumstances. No queue-time benefits available for playing a "disability card", irrespective of how genuine it may be.

In terms of the hidden disability part where Disney scans a card and allows you to return via the FP entrance in the current queue time; is that not essentially what Alton Towers does already? Or should I say, how Alton Towers’ system should theoretically work if implemented correctly?

 

[Kraken27]

In terms of the hidden disability part where Disney scans a card and allows you to return via the FP entrance in the current queue time; is that not essentially what Alton Towers does already? Or should I say, how Alton Towers’ system should theoretically work if implemented correctly?

It is exactly how the Alton Towers system should work... but we all know it does not. Disney have invested an awful lot of money in technology to make sure their RAP system works with regard to making guests return to the FastPass entrance at the correct time, so they end up queueing for the same amount of time as everyone else.

Alton Towers / Merlins' investment along the same lines was a load of RAP cards printed on card & a few big boxes of BIC Biros for the ride hosts - and just hope the hosts remember to use both.

I should also, for fairness, add that the extremely litigious nature of the USA may have something to play too. Many Americans have the direct-dial for their lawyer in their mobile phone. If they perceive they are not being treated fairly, they'll use it. "Where there is a blame, there is a claim" - and a lawyer who will happily take your money.

 

[Matt N]

It is exactly how the Alton Towers system should work... but we all know it does not. Disney have invested an awful lot of money in technology to make sure their RAP system works with regard to making guests return to the FastPass entrance at the correct time, so they end up queueing for the same amount of time as everyone else.

Alton Towers / Merlins' investment along the same lines was a load of RAP cards printed on card & a few big boxes of BIC Biros for the ride hosts - and just hope the hosts remember to use both.

I should also, for fairness, add that the extremely litigious nature of the USA may have something to play too. Many Americans have the direct-dial for their lawyer in their mobile phone. If they perceive they are not being treated fairly, they'll use it. "Where there is a blame, there is a claim" - and a lawyer who will happily take your money.

With that in mind, then; wouldn’t a Reserve’n’Ride system akin to what Legoland Windsor and Chessington use eradicate the current RAP problems?

It’s a technological solution, so there’s not much room for error, really.

 

[tayspru]

With that in mind, then; wouldn’t a Reserve’n’Ride system akin to what Legoland Windsor and Chessington use eradicate the current RAP problems?

It’s a technological solution, so there’s not much room for error, really.

It would work but then they’d have to sacrifice the money they make from fasttrack sales. A lot of people won’t be happy to move to the reserve and ride system at Towers due to the high number of coasters, only opting for the highest tier would give the same freedom as the current FT

That, and Merlin are probably painfully aware of how bad the wifi and signal is around towers and to a lesser extent Thorpe

 

[rob666]

My thought process was that the park probably aims for a maximum “palatable wait” for RAP users.

My assumption was that the ratio was likely to be higher when the demand was higher.

This is because if there is a lower demand-to-supply ratio (i.e. a quieter day), then the ride doesn’t have to process as many RAP users in a given period to keep to that “palatable wait”, therefore the percentage of throughput allocated to RAP can be lower.

Whereas when there is a higher demand-to-supply ratio (i.e. a busier day), the ride has to process more RAP users in a given period to keep to that “palatable wait”, therefore the percentage of throughput allocated to RAP needs to be higher.

This is of course assuming that throughput is the same on both days, which isn’t always the case, but my point still stands.

I could be completely wrong, but that was my assumption. It would explain why the most popular rides (in the context of Alton Towers, I’d say these are Wicker Man and Smiler) and the low throughput rides often tend to have greater percentage of throughput allocated to RAP. In a scenario where demand is a higher percentage of supply, then you need a greater percentage of throughput allocated to RAP to deal with the added demand.

They probably have to prioritise RAP over the main queue because a typical user of the RAP queue would be unlikely to understand why the main queue was prioritised over the RAP queue, whereas a typical user of the main queue would probably understand why the RAP queue was being prioritised over the main queue.

"Assuming throughput remains the same on both days"...but it never is though is it...Alton put on more trains and staff on busy days where possible, always have, always will.
Correct use of the system, with timed tickets, and no abuse, means rap queues should be manageable.
But people abuse the system, and Alton fail miserably to manage the system fairly...problems on both sides of the operation.

 

[Nick🎢]

We do go around in circles with this. I think it's fair to say RAP users and non-RAP users alike agree a R&R approach is the best and fairest. It's only technology stopping it at towers currently.

In the short term, I would say this could be fixed tomorrow with firmer training / governance for queue teams to use the cards to the letter of the law. Unfortunately it leaves two problems. 1 The likes of people on this thread will still make unfounded accusations that people don't need it and will emotionally assume RAP is getting an advantage, regardless of if that is objectively true or not! 2. Without R&R and the "bookable slot" model you still get RAP peaks in demand at favoured rides and that queue length is uncontrollable.

Couple of side notes -

Keep in mind if the rap queue is long they have already waited the queue time (if done correctly) before joining it so are actually at a disadvantage.

R&R also can exclude RAP users from popular attractions because of the slot limitations. I remember fighting all day trying to get a slot on Flight at LL for instance. There are scenarios with it where exclusion is a thing. It's likely limited to new attractions though.

 

[Matt N]

R&R also can exclude RAP users from popular attractions because of the slot limitations. I remember fighting all day trying to get a slot on Flight at LL for instance. There are scenarios with it where exclusion is a thing. It's likely limited to new attractions though.

Can’t you argue that the same could be true for guests using the main queue, though? So in that sense, it provides an experience reflective of that experienced by guests in the main queue?

If a ride queue gets above a certain time, then that may exclude guests using the main queues because plenty might not want to wait, say, 2 hours. Also, the park might close the queue if it gets above a certain length, which also excludes main queue guests more explicitly.

 

[Nick🎢]

I would counter with to a degree but not exactly. The choice is removed. A 2h queue is a choice. In that scenario there is no 2h R&R, you literally cannot book at all. I would suggest talk of closing queues etc is an extreme position and a bit of a false equivalency.

 

[imanautie]

My understanding is it is actually planned for all the parks to be on loqueue eventually, but really the main problem then is merlins lack of investment on integrating different systems makes it still not a scratch on Disney, and let's not forget what the accesso CEO's role once was.
Hands up how many passholders got a "sign up for map today" email for one.

 

[Nick🎢]

It makes total sense for everyone. I sat at Octoberfest with a minimal crowd thinking "This would be so much better if all the local queues, Wickerman, Smiler etc where able to enjoy this, have a beer, hotdog etc". loQueue or an equivalent is the answer, I would make it a standard, not a perk, personally.

 

[Skyscraper]

It makes total sense for everyone. I sat at Octoberfest with a minimal crowd thinking "This would be so much better if all the local queues, Wickerman, Smiler etc where able to enjoy this, have a beer, hotdog etc". loQueue or an equivalent is the answer, I would make it a standard, not a perk, personally.

Towers did actually explore Virtual queuing a couple of years ago, but decided to bring in the Retrosquad rides instead.

 

[Benzin]

Towers did actually explore Virtual queuing a couple of years ago, but decided to bring in the Retrosquad rides instead.

After Thorpe's dismal attempt at bringing in Reserve & Ride for the masses you can maybe understand the hesitance.

Especially when Towers has a great need for supporting attractions.

Like I've said before, if the park starts enforcing the system as it's designed it'll stop a lot of viewpoint of it being "free Fastrack". At least until the electronic version comes in.

It just always baffles me that Merlin are the only park I've seem it completely go out the window. Efteling can be unlucky on Joris or Baron though but even then it's nowhere near as problematic.

 

[Plastic Person]

It makes total sense for everyone. I sat at Octoberfest with a minimal crowd thinking "This would be so much better if all the local queues, Wickerman, Smiler etc where able to enjoy this, have a beer, hotdog etc". loQueue or an equivalent is the answer, I would make it a standard, not a perk, personally.

I totally agree with the sentiment of this, but until Alton Towers decide to invest in support attractions and appealing food and drink year-round, as well as park-wide, I can't see it working. Walibi Holland, a similar (if smaller) park to Alton in terms of audience, went full-on VQ last summer with almost all their major rides, and all that was left to fill the time for guests waiting five hours for their turn on Untamed was to queue two hours for a Space Shot or else just slump at the side of the pavement draining their phone battery.

 

[MattyH]

We debate various points and people make valid points but are seen as "Emotionally insensitive"

 

[Squiggs]

We debate various points and people make valid points but are seen as "Emotionally insensitive"

I think that is often not because of the point being made, but rather that it is being made in an 'emotionally insensitive' way.

If a RAP member (who wasn't familiar with the forum) was to read this thread, at points they could legitimately feel like they are under attack, often for mistakes that Merlin are making.

 

[Nick🎢]

Questions instead of statements can avoid that I find.

 

[Benzin]

We debate various points and people make valid points but are seen as "Emotionally insensitive"

Using Benjsh's post as the most recent example; would you not think it somewhat insensitive to have your child's mental disability whittled down to you being a bad parent?

You yourself seem to be of the belief that many RAP users can queue in the normal queue because they queue in the RAP one. Would some be able to withstand the tight confines of Thirteen, Rita or Smiler? What about the physical exertion required for Nemesis or Oblivion? When the park's RAP system isn't even implemented by the staff properly on a number of occasions what options are there for RAP users?

Disabled people (especially those with non-visible disabilities) have enough judgement on the street without needing to see such things online. Plus something the Internet seems to forget is that there are consequences to what you say (which often goes completely overboard because there's no grey online anymore).

Thoughtful phrasing is a far more sensible way to debate these things rather than hook onto vapid generalisations of something that has become far more public. Ignorance of the problem and blaming it on "modern parenting" (note I am not actually accusing Benjsh of this as his thought process, but the general wider world view) causes the issue not to be resolved, and force people to mask their behaviours in a completely unhealthy manner. This of course can cause further problems down the line for both child and parent in different fashions.

Quite often it feels like the RAP users are being made out as a scapegoat to what is a park operational issue that has been allowed to become overcrowded and oversaturated due to a minority of groups who abuse it for the own goals. Staff often aren't trained to deal with burdenous guests, and often when faced with RAP guests kicking off the odds are stacked against them.

 

[Nick🎢]

To be totally fair, I can honestly say if I hadn't lived it for 13 years I would likely be the one with "misguided" views on the topic. It's human nature I guess. I would probably keep them to myself but I am pushing 40. 18-30 year old me would of been all gob about it. What I am saying is, I don't agree with them but I don't blame people for their stance. It's easy to not have compassion about a subject you are totally ignorant to.

 

[MattyH]

If a person is capable of walking up from the smiler exit to oblivions exit then It would be probable they could cope with Oblivions queue surely?

Nemesis queue when it's in the extension requires a bit of exertion but nothing extreme.

I would say the worse is Galaticas extension up the hill.

If a person is having such severe sensory overloads caused by loud noises and confined spaces then perhaps consider where they're going?

Maybe there could be things done for people who could join the main queue but at present can't, both from a visitor's point of view but also the parks.

Surely in an ideal situation, there would be no need for RAP as everyone would be able to join the main standby line.

 

[Nick🎢]

If a person is capable of walking up from the smiler exit to oblivions exit then It would be probable they could cope with Oblivions queue surely?

Nemesis queue when it's in the extension requires a bit of exertion but nothing extreme.

I would say the worse is Galaticas extension up the hill.

If a person is having such severe sensory overloads caused by loud noises and confined spaces then perhaps consider where they're going?

Maybe there could be things done for people who could join the main queue but at present can't, both from a visitor's point of view but also the parks.

Surely in an ideal situation, there would be no need for RAP as everyone would be able to join the main standby line.

I have no words. We will leave it there.