Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Scott, 11th Jun 2013.
The Nemesis helix around the monorail is more intense than Smiler, by every metric, surely.
I’m not so sure. Nemesis apparently pulls 3.5G at its most forceful point (that’s got to be the helix, surely?), whereas Smiler pulls 4.8G according to Gerstlauer.
I guess it depends on your definition of intense, though. I can’t put my finger on why, but I think the two coasters provide a very different kind of intensity to one another. I can handle Nemesis perfectly well, whereas I find Smiler, especially the first half, can sometimes make me feel a little strange. The pure intensity and relentlessness of Smiler produces a very odd, sickening head-spinning sensation that I’ve only ever experienced on one another coaster, and that’s Olympia Looping at Hyde Park Winter Wonderland.
I find that strange, as neither of the aforementioned rides ever made me grey or black out, but felt very, very intense in a different way, and I can’t say it’s a kind of intensity I find the most pleasant.
The first definitely. Bigger drops so more force to it. I've only greyed out on Nemesis and thats normally at the helix
......according to Gerstlaurer. Like manufactures do not over exaggerate things.
Go on the ride and feel for yourself rather than reading stuff online. Nemesis without a doubt has more intense sections than the Smiler. Specifically that Helix. Plus that helix sustains a force round the helix. There are no real sustained forces on the smiler like that. So even if there was a very short sharp pop of 4.8g on the Smiler, it would be less intense than a sustained 3.5g. The numbers on their own are meaningless without any context into how they are delivered, you cannot measure intensity of a ride based on them alone.
And I'm assuming that sharp point of force on the smiler is after the first dive loop dropping down before you go into the next one. That part definitely feels the most intense anyway
To me, the second half is more intense.
This. The bottom of that helix on Nemesis is still one of the most intense moments on any coaster I have ridden.
Completely agree. I can sometimes feel myself starting to grey out on the helix. You really can feel the pull of the forces.
I should probably clarify what I meant by saying that I felt like Smiler was Towers’ most intense coaster.
A better way to phrase it would probably be that while I think Nemesis probably has the most forceful moment of any Towers coaster, Smiler feels like the most relentless, constantly intense Towers coaster.
In terms of what I mean; I’ll admit that Nemesis’ helix feels more forceful than any individual moment of Smiler, and I’d perhaps nominate the vertical loop too, however Nemesis also gives you moments where the forces aren’t quite as high; while Nemesis certainly has its very forceful moments, I wouldn’t say it’s forceful throughout, and there are other moments where you get a little respite. With Smiler, on the other hand; every inch of that track that isn’t a lift hill or brake run just feels like utterly non-stop intensity. The thing is utterly relentless, and always seems to be exerting huge force on you.
Put it this way; when I hit the brake run on Nemesis, I feel fine, whereas the first half of Smiler in particular always gets my head spinning, and I often feel a little bit strange getting off. The only other coaster that’s ever had my head spinning like that is Olympia Looping.
I’m not saying that as a slight against Nemesis by any means; heck, I prefer Nemesis to Smiler by a fair amount, as I personally find Smiler a little too intense/nauseating for my liking, whereas I find Nemesis’ forces more palatable. I just find that Smiler is absolutely relentless, and doesn’t give you the moments of respite like Nemesis does.
Don’t get me wrong; if you like your coasters forceful and don’t mind a little roughness, there’s nothing out there quite like Smiler. But as someone who prefers more fun, rerideable coasters, it’s not really my favourite.
There's plenty of forceful and rough coasters on the planet that run rings around The Smiler.
See to me, The Smiler is very re-rideable, mainly because I don't feel the intenseness, roughness, or dizziness in the slightest.
People have different tolerances, which is why some people can cope with extreme rides and others can't. You have a stronger stomach than other people when it comes to Smiler.
I'm yet to ride Smiler, and I've always been worried about if I'll be able to handle it.
I feel like my spin tolerance has actually gotten better recently as well, as I can now do Enterprise without feeling sick, and Roller Disco and Funk'n'Fly don't affect me either. Didn't always used to be the case with Enterprise, but maybe that's why I can manage The Smiler so well.
There is a big difference between an intense coaster than you can get off feeling like you had a great time and enjoyed a mixture of different forces including some really forceful moments, compared to a relentless feeling where its more about the duration of the ride.
Coming off a ride dizzy isn't the sign of a good ride. Coming off any wanting to ride again because it was so much fun/scary is.
Out of interest, what are some examples you can think of?
The best advice I can give you is to try it once. If you love it, then great! If it’s not for you, then just don’t do it again.
See, I’d also say Nemesis mainly relies on positive g’s as its main party trick (it doesn’t really have any negatives or hangtime to speak of), but the way in which it uses them is one I much prefer to the way Smiler uses them. It does have moments where it gives you a bit of a break from them, and they don’t feel too overpowering. If the ride’s running poorly, then these sections can admittedly feel a bit sluggish, in my opinion, but if the ride’s running well, then these are very much valued.
Personally, my favourite coasters are ones that offer more negative g’s as well as just positives. Looking at my top 10 (in my signature), you might notice that many of the rides in it, especially towards the top, have at least a decent degree of airtime, hangtime or negative force. I know Swarm initially looks like a red flag, but I actually find Swarm to have absolutely blissful hangtime, as well as some surprising kicks of negative g in places! Swarm is quite a forceful coaster in sections (notably the helicopter helix), but it’s not intense enough to detract from the ride for me; Swarm strikes a nice balance between thrill & rerideability, in my opinion!
However, I find that sometimes, one element or section of a coaster is just so, so intense that it still makes me feel strange and detracts from the rest of the ride. For instance, a good example of this is Manta at SeaWorld Orlando, where the sheer intensity of that pretzel loop just ruins the rest of the ride for me, and the raw intensity of the section with the loops on Olympia Looping.
I’m yet to find a coaster that has too much negative g-force/airtime for my liking, but I think positives are something that I only really like when used in moderation. I know this might not be the case for some, but I personally find that you can definitely have too much positive g-force on a ride.
I actually don't find The Smiler that intense an experience. It's very fun (I've personally never found it rough in the slightest) and it's clearly a big thrill ride, but it's never been out of this world intense. I never come off it with a headache or any real dizziness, so I'd say it is re-ridable. (Just that it's often difficult to do so with queues as crazy as they are).
I find manta’s pretzel loop more intense than anything on smiler.
Yeah a pretzel loop on a flying coaster has got to be one of the most intense elements on any coaster.
Manta’s pretzel loop is easily one of the most, if not the most intense coaster element I’ve ever done; more intense than any ride moment at Alton Towers for me. With the sheer sustained force of it combined with the riding position, I honestly found it quite an unpleasant element to experience.
I don’t particularly love Galactica’s fly-to-lie either, as that similarly puts you on your back for an extended period and has g-force rushing to your head, but the forces aren’t anywhere near as high in that element as a pretzel loop, or at least don’t feel it, so it’s palatable if not something I particularly love. Manta’s pretzel loop was just too intense to be pleasant, and it kind of ruined the rest of the ride for me.
I get why someone would like Manta’s pretzel loop, but it wasn’t for me at all, and as such, Manta controversially sits some way below Galactica for me as far as B&M flyers go.
Given that I’ve heard Manta isn’t even B&M’s most intense pretzel loop, I dread to think of how intense the likes of Tatsu and Flying Dinosaur are…
Same here, I find it really uncomfortable and it hurts my neck.
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