Theme Park Worldwide

jon81uk

TS Member
Why can't the parks promote themselves, surely theyre the best channels for promotion? Eg offer backstage tours, a backstage insight video, and treat all their fans equal rather than just those holding the biggest power online.

It would be tragic to see more things go that route, shilling out any inch of the park to whatever popular YouTuber for the sake of promo. It should be about real engagement for anyone interested.

why should This Morning, Blue Peter, Midlands Today or any show get access behind the scenes?
Because people watch it.
If a venue has decided a YouTube channel is better to show their product than traditional TV what’s wrong with that?
 

OilyWater

TS Member
why should This Morning, Blue Peter, Midlands Today or any show get access behind the scenes?
Because people watch it.
Not anymore, they watch social media, which the parks effectively run their own TV channels with the most viewers.

The argument you are essentially putting across is why shouldn't I release and promote the movie through my own website, rather than putting it on Netflix.
No it isnt, so I wont even bother reading your post. Unless Shawn's channel is Netflix or he owns YouTube

This particular one is not even a park, it's the illuminations which I presume are funded through the council by business on in the town?
You said that you wanted to see more of this, which I assume being a theme park YouTube channel was wanting to see Shawn go behind the scenes at theme parks.

That everyone is afforded backstage access, preview of rides, special events and all the other things vlogers get? That obviously doesn't work for any number of reasons of practicality.
For years theme parks have regularly done backstage tours for a limited time and have been very successful, interesting and informative. I also said that they could produce their own behind the scenes video. Both those options are equal to everybody rather than special treatment, where its first and foremost about getting kudos off a popular vlogger than engaging fans

Everyone getting touchy whenever somebody questions something related to Shawn Sanbrooke, but nobody really answer the question of what did they do to deserve special treatment? They are the most popular channel online, that's not a reason to deserve special treatment. Parks should treat visitors equally.
 
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jon81uk

TS Member
Not anymore, they watch social media, which the parks effectively run their own TV channels with the most viewers.

Alton Towers YouTube channel had 47k followers. Theme park worldwide has 274k followers.
the parks are not running their own tv channel, but the vloggers are. That’s why places give TPWW access, they have a big audience. As you say, fewer people are watching traditional broadcast TV nowadays, but specialist YouTube channels are popular.
 

OilyWater

TS Member
Alton Towers YouTube channel had 47k followers. Theme park worldwide has 274k followers.
But still Alton Towers Facebook has 1.3M followers, TPWW Facebook 45k
Alton Towers Twitter 191k, TPWW Twitter 22k
Alton Towers YouTube channel probably less cos they dont put anything interesting like this on there.

I get why they do it, PR power, not every park is big, but why it happens and if they deserve it two different things.

Even if it was TV, doesnt really mean they deserve it any better, but they have at least been given access because theyre a professional reporter or documentary crew, than just some guy who is famous. So I dont really get the comparison anyway.

Maybe its because I just never understood cult of personality. If I met Shawn, which I have, I would just treat him normally like anyone else who was a fan.
 
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tayspru

TS Member
They deserve it because growing and maintaining a YouTube channel is hard work. It’s easy to dismiss them as “shouting down a camera” but if you actually stop to watch their videos, they often give good advice around planning, transport to attractions, food and drink offerings, as well as information about rides that your average person wouldn’t know. After that add in the time it takes to edit, process, and render the videos and YouTube can very quickly become a full time job.

They do deserve their opportunities - because they grew their channel organically, it wasn’t magically handed to them. Facebook and Twitter numbers don’t matter when it comes to video content, TPWW far outstrip most parks when it comes to YouTube subs which is where long form video (such as backstage tours or park tours) thrive.

Another thing to say is that for the most part , theme park enthusiasts (who have such a breadth of knowledge that they are on a forum such as this) are NOT their target market. They aim their content squarely at families, who *will* be impressed by things we would perhaps consider “surface level” information.

To your point specifically about backstage tours, it costs money to have tech / ride staff stop their usual duties to provide a tour. As a business owner, do you have that happen once, and the footage be captured (for free) by a YouTuber, to then be seen by thousands. Or do you stump up the money to have this happen literally every day and get far less exposure overall?

Why do you think they *don’t* deserve their platform, because it isn’t personally to your taste? I’d like to see you create content at their scale and quantity and make it succesful
 

OilyWater

TS Member
They deserve it because growing and maintaining a YouTube channel is hard work. It’s easy to dismiss them as “shouting down a camera” but if you actually stop to watch their videos, they often give good advice around planning, transport to attractions, food and drink offerings, as well as information about rides that your average person wouldn’t know. After that add in the time it takes to edit, process, and render the videos and YouTube can very quickly become a full time job.
I spend literally all my spare time doing video production, I dont think I deserve it just because of that. If you also did lots of video production, you would probably realise too that it doesnt make him indebted by the parks.
they grew their channel organically, it wasn’t magically handed to them.
Well yes it basically is, that's sort of how algorithms work. There are countless channels that have been going for ages, but a bit like getting a number 1 chart hit. It's a heck of a lot of random luck combined with people realising they can profit off your back if they promote you, and only a little bit to do with effort and talent.

There are also much better YT theme park fan channels out there that put more effort in, but thats besides the point.

Why do you think they *don’t* deserve their platform
They deserve their platform, as in their channel. Again not what I was talking about. I dont think they deserve special treatment and access just because they are famous.

I dont think giving special treatment to famous people sets a good precedent anywhere. If you see the sheer number of fans feeling pressure to copy channels like TPWW thinking its what they have to do to get somewhere. Big league channels getting back handers from parks. It stops being about enjoying theme parks and about a petty online power game.

It got quite obvious too. Alex Crump waltzing around Pleasure Beach with park staff in a Godfather esque trench coat, Amanda constantly trying to flatter famous fans on Twitter, funny but also tragic.
 
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tayspru

TS Member
I spend literally all my spare time doing video production, I dont think I deserve it just because of that. If you also did lots of video production, you would probably realise too that it doesnt make him indebted by the parks.

Well yes it basically is, that's sort of how algorithms work. There are countless channels that have been going for ages, but a bit like getting a number 1 chart hit. It's a heck of a lot of random luck combined with people realising they can profit off your back if they promote you, and only a little bit to do with effort and talent.

There are also much better YT theme park fan channels out there that put more effort in, but thats besides the point.

They deserve their platform, as in their channel. Again not what I was talking about. I dont think they deserve special treatment and access just because they are famous.

I dont think giving special treatment to famous people sets a good precedent anywhere. If you see the sheer number of fans feeling pressure to copy channels like TPWW thinking its what they have to do to get somewhere. Big league channels getting back handers from parks. It stops being about enjoying theme parks and about a petty online power game.

It got quite obvious too. Alex Crump waltzing around Pleasure Beach with park staff in a Godfather esque trench coat, Amanda constantly trying to flatter famous fans on Twitter, funny but also tragic.
Oh ok, so you’ve gone from having a problem with TPWW to a problem with the capitalistic nature of the world in itself. A thread on a theme park forum isn’t going to fix that.

It is not worth the parks time to offer these experiences to people who would not offer them a return on investment. TPWW is a channel that the parks believe they should invest time in. Can’t do anything about that now so either enjoy the content or ignore it. No need to bash their hard work because you’re not getting the benefits they get
 

OilyWater

TS Member
Oh ok, so you’ve gone from having a problem with TPWW to a problem with the capitalistic nature of the world in itself.
No. Please, just read my post and not keep strawmanning me.

It is not worth the parks time to offer these experiences to people who would not offer them a return on investment.
Theyve made plenty money off backstage tours before. Lift hill walks. Also doesnt cost much to produce their own backstage or similar video and get a bigger audience on their own channel. What else you going to scrape the barrel to not discuss the actual question?

No need to bash their hard work because you’re not getting the benefits they get
Im not bashing, Im asking a pretty simple ethical question. Its not that hard work as Ive said I do exactly the same kind of work. Im questioning do they deserve special treatment.

I come to expect it, but always confusing why people to get so touchy about influencer culture. More controversial on here than saying Nemesis is overrated!
 

DistortAMG

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Pirates of the Caribbean (DLP)
No it isnt, so I wont even bother reading your post. Unless Shawn's channel is Netflix or he owns YouTube

Rigghtt, you understand what context means don't you? Very relevant here!

Forgive me if I am off the mark, but this all comes across to me as someone being salty because they are not getting the behind the scenes tours.

This is not a dig at you though, but I have often got the impression that not all, but a fair portion of hate towards TPWW comes from outright jealously of others.

Well yes it basically is, that's sort of how algorithms work. There are countless channels that have been going for ages, but a bit like getting a number 1 chart hit. It's a heck of a lot of random luck combined with people realising they can profit off your back if they promote you, and only a little bit to do with effort and talent.

That is not how algorithms work at all, an algorithm is essentially a set of rules, like a recipe for cooking a meal on its most basic form. They are not based on random luck, they are based on rules and pre defined conditions.

Have you ever wondered why so many Youtubers ask you to, subscribe, like, hit the bell, and comment. Because the more engagement the channel has with it's fans, the more likely that the algorithm for YouTube will show the video in a feed to a non channel viewer. Which then brings new viewers in, they engage more with the channel, new viewers come in, it repeats and snowballs. That's how the channels grow on YouTube in the most basic form. Channels do not grow on YouTube because of luck, because the effort has not been put in to get the engagement from the very audience they serve.

So the direct effort you put into your channel, the effort you put into getting your fans to engage with your channel, pushes growth of the channel. Who would have thought?
 
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tayspru

TS Member
By your own logic, channel growth is based on luck. That being the case, how do you propose the parks grow their own channels? And why would they bother when they can achieve the same end result (BTS footage on YouTube for example) and let someone else do most of the work.

Lift hill walks make some money but when staffing is such an issue as it has been, it’s not logical to take these staff away from their actual jobs in a regular basis, so again it’s easier to allocate just one day to this than have a salaried / retained staff member dedicated to that. Things like that can also only happen when the park is closed so doesn’t have the same appeal for families as sitting back and watching a video. And when I say return on investment, it’s accessibility to content and reach that is worth more than the actual money that could be made from physical experiences. Times have changed and YouTube and social media is worth a lot more than it used to be.

It seems to me you’re just bitter that you doing “the same kind of work” hasn’t afforded you the same opportunities. Can’t help you there. As someone who produces video performing content myself, it’s not fair to say it’s not hard to produce video content because it simply requires effort no matter how you slice it.

At the end of the day, the people providing the experiences to TPWW have decided that they “deserve” these perks, and thanks to that we get to see footage that otherwise we may not have.

*also* it’s illegal for these channels to get “backhanders” and TPWW always disclose when they have been given exclusive or free experiences. So I’m not sure what you mean by that comment.
 

OilyWater

TS Member
Rigghtt, you understand what context means don't you?
Yes, it makes no sense comparing someone's YouTube channel to uploading to Netflix vs your own service. Alton Towers dont have to upload to Shawn to have a platform (Shawn is not Netflix / doesnt own the service), they both upload to the same social media platforms as each other. This still doesnt have anything to do with my point.
Forgive me if I am off the mark, but this all comes across to me as someone being salty because they are not getting the behind the scenes tours.
Of course that's what people want to think, but I think Ive explained well enough the question Im actually posing.

Saying it must be because Im salty that I question VIPs getting undeserved special treatment, is a bit like saying anyone who questions unfairness is just salty.

I didnt know it was such a controversial idea for parks to treat all paying customers equally, regardless of status power.

By your own logic, channel growth is based on luck. That being the case, how do you propose the parks grow their own channels?
Because they are the official brand, its a big obvious difference. Theyre not just one of many countless theme park fan channels trying to be the next Shawn Sanbrooke trying to feed the algorithm.
It seems to me you’re just bitter that you doing “the same kind of work” hasn’t afforded you the same opportunities. Can’t help you there.
Not really, I did state that I dont think it deserved me any different to any other paying customer.
 
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DistortAMG

TS Member
Favourite Ride
Pirates of the Caribbean (DLP)
Yes, it makes no sense comparing someone's YouTube channel to uploading to Netflix vs your own service. Alton Towers dont have to upload to Shawn to have a platform (Shawn is not Netflix / doesnt own the service), they both upload to the same social media platforms as each other. This still doesnt have anything to do with my point.

Again, you totally miss the point.

You made the point as to why don't theme parks upload content to their own video channels rather than using vloggers. The whole purpose of the videos would be to reach an audience, not only do the official channels have much smaller numbers, a good portion of the viewers might not be theme park fans / geeks or whatever, they could just be your average person. So instead, they get a theme park vlogger in, in TPWW's case, not only is the audience hugely larger than their own, being a theme park fan vlogger, pretty much all of that audience will have a bigger interest in theme parks than say your average guest or average viewer of a mainstream channel, so you are going to have a much much bigger receptive audience to your content. Better achieving the goals of making a video in the first place.

So that is like putting a video out on your own website, where the audience is small and it will not go out to many people. Or you could put it out on Netflix, where the audience would be much much larger. Exactly the same principles.

The fact I use Netflix is irrelevant, I am not sure where the relevance of 'owning the platform / service' comes from either, because again, that is totally irrelevant to the point I am making.
 

OilyWater

TS Member
You made the point as to why don't theme parks upload content to their own video channels rather than using vloggers. The whole purpose of the videos would be to reach an audience, not only do the official channels have much smaller numbers
So that is like putting a video out on your own website, where the audience is small and it will not go out to many people. Or you could put it out on Netflix, where the audience would be much much larger. Exactly the same principles.
But quite different principles really, its YouTube v YouTube, what people choose to watch when they go on to Netflix or YouTube is up to them. Maybe if they put something worth watching on their YouTube then people would watch, like most other big theme park YT channels (Europa park etc)

Youre also trying to paint it like they have to use YouTubers to get enough reach. YouTube is just one social media channel, I posted how the others like Facebook and Twitter have way bigger reach on the official park channels, and they post the same videos to all platforms.

So back to the question of if they deserve that special treatment?

Personally I think no, they just get used for their star power to promote to fans in return for free goodies. Exactly the same in film fan circles, etc. Its a power relationship.

Do you by any chance run a theme park related content channel ?
Daym you got me, I am actually an ex Shawn superfan who started my own vlogs, but when he didnt heart my comment asking for a channel shoutout I was thrown into a rage! I just have a massive Shawn vendetta because I will never be him
 

tayspru

TS Member
You didn’t answer the question - do you have your own Theme Park related channel ? Yes or no will do. You seem to almost purposefully be ignoring every user on here at this point because we don’t agree with your stance on influencer marketing.
 

OilyWater

TS Member
You seem to almost purposefully be ignoring every user on here at this point because we don’t agree with your stance on influencer marketing.
Im not sure that replying to every post on this tedious topic is called ignoring. Unlike you ignoring the question of whether they deserve special treatment, and instead trying to find whatever 'gotcha' excuse to try discount the question.

But I chose to ignore pointless strawman questions about whether or not I run my own YouTube channel. No, I dont do a theme park vlog channel. Do you? I already told you I do video production so understand the "effort" they put in there, but I still don't think they deserve it because of that. Thats your opinion and my opinion.

Hey, if you just like Shawn Sanbrooke, fair enough! Theres no big deal. No need to get so argumentative about it. Doesnt mean the question shouldnt be asked.
 

tayspru

TS Member
Ok here it is. Whether *we* think they deserve special treatment is largely irrelevant for two reasons:

1 - We aren’t the ones providing the experiences
2 - The experiences they receive do not create a negative impact on other guests

Your replies have been evasive, based on false logics, and at times rude. At the end of the day what would you prefer? That exclusive experiences only be provided to those who pay for it ? Because having money doesn’t mean you “deserve” those experiences either.

TPWW and other YouTube channels have provided us the most insight that we have EVER had as enthusiasts, and will also be an excellent archive of parks. TPWW being the largest of these channels has also made what was once a niche hobby very accessible, doing things that were previously reserved for “enthusiast only” events. Also, their content is COMPLETELY free to access, they aren’t exploiting anyone or anything like that.
 

OilyWater

TS Member
Your replies have been evasive, based on false logics, and at times rude.
I would say exactly the same to you, as you evade the question again, and I dont think I ever tried to make it personal towards you and frame you as being 'jealous' or otherwise, which is a bit rude in my books.
At the end of the day what would you prefer?
I would really prefer equal opportunity to anyone. Either dont give out freebies and give everyone the same experience, produce a video for their own platforms that doesnt involve VIPs, or offer backstage tours that run for a fair price so that anyone interested can get the chance. All those things are tried and tested in theme parks round the world. Sounds incredibly uncontroversial to me
 

Islander

TS Member
Kinda feels like both sides need to calm down here lol, it's getting remarkably heated for a chat about a theme park vlog lol.

Also worth remembering that with the anonymity a forum brings, you never quite know who you're talking to. For all you know, it could be that you're talking to people who've provided the enthusiast community with just as much incredible insight into the industry as Sandbrooke unarguably has. Not that that, in any way, gives them carte blanche to be rude back.

Present for both sides of the debate!

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tayspru

TS Member
I would say exactly the same to you, as you evade the question again, and I dont think I ever tried to make it personal towards you and frame you as being 'jealous' or otherwise, which is a bit rude in my books.

I would really prefer equal opportunity to anyone. Either dont give out freebies and give everyone the same experience, produce a video for their own platforms that doesnt involve VIPs, or offer backstage tours that run for a fair price so that anyone interested can get the chance. All those things are tried and tested in theme parks round the world. Sounds incredibly uncontroversial to me

First of all I said several times that I believe they deserve it, you chose not to read the reasons why as it conflicted with your own view. Now onto your other points, remembering that parks are businesses not philanthropic forces unrestrained by staffing or monetary issues.

They can’t provide everyone the same experience - due to financial and time constraints of running an attraction. That’s just a fact and why Merlin stopped offering such experiences, they couldn’t afford the increased staffing.

The parks often don’t have specialist videographers to produce content (these cost money) so of course they source it out for free, to people who are passionate about the subject.

Backstage tours often have age requirements (the whole family can watch a video), you have to pay some amount (YouTube is free), and you have to get to the park too (YouTube is in your front room) . It also gets around accessibility - for example someone disabled simply may not be able to partake in a backstage tour but can watch content on YouTube
 
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