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2024: General Discussion
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
Need that extra capacity because of everything else being shut
Just had an email of the May sale...
Discovery passes for £80...again.
The race to the bottom with cheap passes, forcing the extra spend on fasttrack if you want a decent day, continues.
Massive queues, run down facilities, dodgy operations and closed/poorly run transport systems...well what do you expect for eighty quid a year...clear off.
Funny how they don't seem to do offers on the queuejump passes isn't it...that's where the real money is now.
Discovery passes for £80...again.
The race to the bottom with cheap passes, forcing the extra spend on fasttrack if you want a decent day, continues.
Massive queues, run down facilities, dodgy operations and closed/poorly run transport systems...well what do you expect for eighty quid a year...clear off.
Funny how they don't seem to do offers on the queuejump passes isn't it...that's where the real money is now.
Bowser
TS Member
Bit early for that to have had a noticeable effect imo but it likely will. Not much point having an annual pass when it’s impossible to book a RAP slot.
Poisson
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Giant Squid
RAP changes seem so far to be working much better though for queues to actually be working. No mega RAP queues so far, no horribly slow main queues due to RAP getting up to half a train on some rides.
Passholder sales with pre-book system is a win for Merlin as you can have all the passholders but they can't all descend on the parks at once.
Passholder sales with pre-book system is a win for Merlin as you can have all the passholders but they can't all descend on the parks at once.
GooseOnTheLoose
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Ug Bugs
A refundable deposit, £10/£20 per RAP slot, might encourage people to actually cancel them if they're not going to use them and help avoid speculative pre-booking. Refunded if cancelled 24 hours prior to the event, or if you turn up. The danger is that it could also clear people's conscious about not turning up, because they've paid the "fee" for the slot.
flyingguitar
TS Member
I don't think they are under priced, I think they are quite reasonable, especially when you consider that discovery passes can only go on off peak days it is very limited day selection, especially if you have a job from Monday to Friday I just checked and only days you could realistically go is some Sundays and there is no time during the summer holidays or easter and more than a week they are unable to go during October.
Realistically the main days that discovery pass holders can go is the days where on average the queues are 20 mins or less, and I don't think the difference they make would will make any difference on fast pass sales as it is a quiet day and most people will easily be able to get round and do all of the ride.
The reason they encourage discovery, and all the passes, to go is for secondary spend, which whilst it dose include fast track, the main spends will be from car parking, food and beverage, merch, etc. also if you can come back tomorrow, why spend how ever much on a fast track? just come tomorrow and get on that ride you didn't do
I would argue these pressures encourage the parks to keep queues down, this gives pass holders and guests a better experience encouraging them to come back another day, meaning they can get more secondary spending.
as another note, if they wanted to encourage fast track spending why won't they take a page from disney and make fast track extremely cheap and make it so for every 10 fast track people only 1 person in the main queue can pass, and why not also take trains off the track to limit capacity and increase queues? from what I see they don't do that unless for maintenance, (wicker man has been running great all year on 3 trains most days) although this year they have been a bit slow getting trains back on track, last week at least they had full capacity back on all of their rides (apart from 13 and spinball)
Bowser
TS Member
I struggle to imagine that anyone is visiting a Merlin park on a peak day and thinking "wow, they've done a great job keeping queues to a minimum, i'm going to get an annual pass so i can come back for this great experience" versus "this pass is absurdly cheap and as long as i visit 2 or 3 attractions a year i've already saved money, plus i can try again when i don't get on the many closed attractions". We know that many major attractions are not operating anywhere near their capacity.
There's been a real cultural shift from a theme park being somewhere you visit perhaps once or twice a year to large numbers of people making regular visits. Merlin have been at the forefront of this but haven't maintained their parks to accommodate imo. 30 minute queues on school days and 90 minute queues on random weekends in early Spring!
I don't think it's a deliberate ploy to create long queues. People queuing aren't having fun and aren't spending money but those pressures evidently aren't a priority.
Because there's only so far you can push people. Disney can get away with extra charges because they maintain fantastic quality parks with a higher number of reliable rides. You rarely see rides with downtime or queue lengths at DLP comparable with what Merlin have.
Notable exception to Legoland that do seem to do better on that front.
Disneys fast track is extremely cheap is it?
Well I never.
I suppose it comes down to what you call cheap, when you have already paid a fortune for entry.
Going to the towers is now a bit like a traditional funfair, if you don't want to wait a long time, and sorry, half an hour on very off peak days is too long, then you end up virtually going pay per ride, via fasttrack.
Well I never.
I suppose it comes down to what you call cheap, when you have already paid a fortune for entry.
Going to the towers is now a bit like a traditional funfair, if you don't want to wait a long time, and sorry, half an hour on very off peak days is too long, then you end up virtually going pay per ride, via fasttrack.
flyingguitar
TS Member
No you are right, people don't think like that, but my argument was that if you go and queue for 2-3 hours per ride with very slow moving queues then you would have had miserable experience then you would be less interested in coming back, as that negative experience will stick with you, people will go "why go to alton, I can just do XYZ it is closer and I don't have to queue".
I didn't think about it that way, but thinking about it there are a few people who I know who went and enjoyed the experience so got a Merlin annual pass but I don't think merlin are doing it to increase queue times and get more fast track spending, I think it is more just getting secondary spend.
yeah, they are quite cheap compared to entry, it is $15-$30, that if for an unlimited fast tracks for quite a few rides, like an unlimited bronse/silver alton towers pass (currently £30-£55 for non unlimited) ao compared to merlin let alone universal it is cheap especially when considering the outrageous prices for entry, universals fast track system is dependant on the day but is £80-£100 per person from what I could see (depending on the pass), now some rides are excluded and charged individually but they aren't too expensive and almost always sell out.
jon81uk
TS Member
Disney Genie+ is not unlimited, its like the old "paper" fastpass, you have to collect a return time and there is only a limited number of slots. So you can buy it and still only use it on 2-3 attractions if you don't get the right timeslots. Its nothing like the Merlin or Universal systems.
flyingguitar
TS Member
yeah I knew about this but thought it was partially solved by paying for it, is it still as bad as when it was free? where you can't collect any fast passes on the day,
I know about being limited to 3 at a time but once you used them you can rebook, still though it is just limited by the slots available, if it was an empty day it would be unlimited.
It is still cheap compared to merlin though bronze single fast track is £35, and you get spinball, TCAAM, RMT, gansta granny, even if you only get on 3 rides using it, it is on average $20, cheaper and I believe the rides are more of their main rides (big thunder, jungle cruse etc)
jon81uk
TS Member
The booking three in advance was Fastpass+, that allowed you to select three in advance and then more on the day once they'd been used.
Genie+ is like the old paper Fastpass, where you ask for a return time and then can get another return time two hours later, or when the return window has started for that ride. There is obviously a limited number per slot so as times are taken the slot moves forwards five minutes etc until all slots are taken for a particular ride. For some rides all slots will be taken within a few minutes/hours.
Therefore its not possible to compare it to the cost of the Merlin pass which guarantees you quick access to those four rides. With the Disney system you may struggle to get many return times, especially for the popular rides.
...and we have gone from extremely cheap to quite cheap.
That'll do.
Fastpasses are a license to print money, with virtually zero cost to the park, dividing the park between rich and poor, haves and have nots, and the ultra cheap season passes increase queuetimes overall...indirectly increasing fasttrack sales...making queues even longer still.
That is how I see it, and experience it.
I don't like waiting half an hour for coasters on a very short, off off peak weekday.
Because I didn't have to for a couple of decades.
And very cheap passes put an end to it...nothing else.
I can go to the Towers every weekday in termtime, at a cost of about fifty pence a day.
But I have to pay another fifty quid on the day to make it anything like fun.
Excellent capitalistic process to increase income, but it lessens the experience for the poor punters who pay for a day ticket.
That'll do.
Fastpasses are a license to print money, with virtually zero cost to the park, dividing the park between rich and poor, haves and have nots, and the ultra cheap season passes increase queuetimes overall...indirectly increasing fasttrack sales...making queues even longer still.
That is how I see it, and experience it.
I don't like waiting half an hour for coasters on a very short, off off peak weekday.
Because I didn't have to for a couple of decades.
And very cheap passes put an end to it...nothing else.
I can go to the Towers every weekday in termtime, at a cost of about fifty pence a day.
But I have to pay another fifty quid on the day to make it anything like fun.
Excellent capitalistic process to increase income, but it lessens the experience for the poor punters who pay for a day ticket.
flyingguitar
TS Member
I didn't know they changed how it works, I was told it was basically fast pass but payed, besides my main point was that Disney fast pass was extremely cheap this makes it very accessible to people (considering they sell out within minuets or hours that is probably true) compared to getting fast track it is very easy and as a result it has essentially became mandatory if you want to have a good time at Disney and created a paid line and free line.
I don't agree with fast tracks/fast passes and I don't think they should really be a thing, but charging more for it is more benificial for the average guest as they are not forced to buy fast track.
Just looking at may 2018, the quiet days on queue times .com the averages were around 10-30 mins, practically on par with what it is currently, from my point of view the park is not targeting fast track sales, they are doing what makes a large amount of sense, trying to move people from going on the saturday / very busy days to the much quieter week time, this increases the park attendance of those very quiet days, like there is no big conspiracy to make extra money by increasing queue times on quiet days to drive fast track sales, it is just moving some of the crowds, or increasing the park attendance to the quiet days. It makes sence, the park are just trying to bring people in during the days when they are under capacity.
jon81uk
TS Member
The Disney system is Fastpass but paid, but their Fastpass cannot be compared to the Merlin and Universal systems that allow instant access with no timeslot bookings. Disney Fastpass has always involved collecting or booking timeslots, Tussauds used to have the same system for free, but got rid almost twenty years ago in favour of charging.
flyingguitar
TS Member
I am willing to admit when i am wrong, and it probably isn't as good of a value as universal or merlin's are, but it is still very accessible 'only' $20 (which is cheap for Disney) to buy a couple skip the lines is very easy to get, and turns the park into a paid for line and free line, where the paid line gets to move at 10 times the rate of the free line, I don't personally like the single shot fast tracks at merlin for the same season. It just makes you feel like you have to pay for it or risk having a very bad day.
Which says it all.
The technology to manage the two biggest rides queues (I think it was just Nemesis and Oblivion wasn't it)...for a very low cost to the park, and free to the customers, was there twenty years ago.
But then they realised they could generate extra money for free, by charging.
Pure profit from a secondary system, that makes even more money when people are stood in lengthy queues.
Not a conspiracy, just capitalism at its finest.
A simple money generation system in a closed captive false market.
Pay extra or get in the slow line...that now goes slower...because it makes us more money that way.