2024 UK general election predictions and general discussion.

[Dobba]

Frank Hester.

Why do we hold Labour to higher standards? Although I do generally agree that Caesar's wife should be beyond reproach.

Because they're going to run the country after the next election. I'd quite like to know that the party that's going to be creating policy for the next five years actually does something about people who spout bare faced racism on its behalf.

Instead, they're protecting their identity so nobody can check when they're still representing the party tomorrow, next week and next year.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I'd quite like to know that the party that's going to be creating policy for the next five years actually does something about people who spout bare faced racism on its behalf.

It hasn't mattered for the past 14 years though, has it? So why care now?

 

[Dobba]

It hasn't mattered for the past 14 years though, has it? So why care now?

Must have been different folks rightfully calling out Johnson's letterbox comments (amongst many others) and condemning Lee Anderson's comments about Sadiq Khan handing control of London to Islamists.

Racism is OK again, it's the good team doing it.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Must have been different folks rightfully calling out Johnson's letterbox comments (amongst many others) and condemning Lee Anderson's comments about Sadiq Khan handing control of London to Islamists.

Racism is OK again, it's the good team doing it.

I'm not defending the comments at all, I'm testing your tolerances and trying to work out the angle you're coming from. Whether it's genuine concern, based purely on the comments, or phony outrage because of political games.

For what it's worth, Labour lost my vote in this election as a direct result of the Islamophobic / sex offender attack ads on Rishi Sunak last year, and the lack of an apology.

 

[Dobba]

I'm not defending the comments at all, I'm testing your tolerances and trying to work out the angle you're coming from. Whether it's genuine concern, based purely on the comments, or phony outrage because of political games.

For what it's worth, Labour lost my vote in this election as a direct result of the Islamophobic / sex offender attack ads on Rishi Sunak last year, and the lack of an apology.

My 'angle' is that I find racism abhorrent.

In the space of a year we've got this incident, Starmer saying on LBC that Israel has the right to starve a couple of million Muslims before conning a mosque in Wales into giving him some 'Look, I have Muslim friends' PR - in which he called for them to release the hostages, the adverts you cited and the (almost certainly) same 'Labour source' who a few months ago compared councillors leaving the party, over Starmer's LBC comments, to the party 'shaking off the fleas'.

At best the party have a bit of a blindspot when it comes to Islamophobia. Luckily for him 99% of his voters care even less about it than our press do.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

At best the party have a bit of a blindspot when it comes to Islamophobia. Luckily for him 99% of his voters care even less about it than our press do.

Let's be fair, that's not strictly true. The Guardian make an attempt at highlighting the inconsistencies and holding him to account, but it's The Guardian so no one reads it.

Labour accused of still not engaging with ‘hierarchy of racism’ claims

Author of report into party’s culture voices concern antisemitism is taken more seriously than other forms of racism

www.theguardian.com

Throw in Nish Kumar and Coco Khan with The News Asians Pod Save The UK and that's pretty much all of the coverage. Maybe, perhaps, James O'Brien.

Unfortunately, in this country, anti-Muslim racism is still pretty much permitted, or is a blind spot at best. There is a hierarchy, and it's abhorrent, which I guess is what Diane Abbot was attempting to get at, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

 

[Benzin]

It's a shame so many of these things up as quotes from sources because our politics is so screwed up "naming and shaming" for abhorrent comments (no matter the side) gets hushed up incredibly quickly.

Not helped by spineless leaders refusing to kick said people out the party unless they essentially have to.

No wonder many believe the "they're just the same" rhetoric.

This being said, is this just the updated version of "Labour is inherently anti-semetic" we saw under Corbyn?

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Not helped by spineless leaders refusing to kick said people out the party unless they essentially have to.

Balance hat on. There hasn't been, up until this point, a single person accused of disagreeable stuff, that Starmer hasn't removed the whip for. Sometimes to his own detriment and the detriment of the party, when he's essentially curtailing to guilty until proven innocent, or a zero tolerance approach (which is admittedly ironic).

Heck, he even threw someone out for suggesting that they vote for alternative parties in areas where Labour wasn't polling well; or for suggesting that Labour could form agreements, coalitions, or understanding. You know, actually working together on something.

He is many things, but he is not afraid to throw people under a bus, or out of the party. Even if he doesn't have to.

 

[Dobba]

Balance hat on. There hasn't been, up until this point, a single person accused of disagreeable stuff, that Starmer hasn't removed the whip for. Sometimes to his own detriment and the detriment of the party, when he's essentially curtailing to guilty until proven innocent, or a zero tolerance approach (which is admittedly ironic).

Heck, he even threw someone out for suggesting that they vote for alternative parties in areas where Labour wasn't polling well; or for suggesting that Labour could form agreements, coalitions, or understanding. You know, actually working together on something.

He is many things, but he is not afraid to throw people under a bus, or out of the party. Even if he doesn't have to.

Labour readmitted Neil Coyle after racially abusing a journalist and a sexual harassment claim was upheld. Barry Sheerman & Steve Reed made antisemitic remarks and were allowed to get away with boilerplate apologies. Rupa Huq had the whip restored after describing Kwarteng as "superficially" black.

Like this racist source, Starmer protects his own.

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

Like this racist source

Pardon, which racist source? You haven't linked to one.

 

[Dobba]

Pardon, which racist source? You haven't linked to one.

From: https://twitter.com/robmayor/status/1786340058145910814

 

[Benzin]

The irony then being that they won that.

So either someone was being very defeatist or a BBC journalist being given a line to feed forwards. Which sadly wouldn't be the first time recently.

Utterly weird comment to make though.

 

[Dobba]

The irony then being that they won that.

So either someone was being very defeatist or a BBC journalist being given a line to feed forwards. Which sadly wouldn't be the first time recently.

Utterly weird comment to make though.

The person who made it blames Hamas when he stubs his toe.

 

[Tom]

'It's the Middle East, not West Midlands that will have won Street the Mayoralty. Once again Hamas are the real villains.'

You're inferring a hell of a lot from that. I see no reference to race.

 

[Dobba]

'It's the Middle East, not West Midlands that will have won Street the Mayoralty. Once again Hamas are the real villains.'

You're inferring a hell of a lot from that. I see no reference to race.

The Daily Mail made MPs calling it out for being racist up, don't worry.

 

[Tom]

The Daily Mail made MPs calling it out for being racist up, don't worry.

Since when has an MP (with an agenda or otherwise) been an automatic authority on racism?

 

[Dobba]

Since when has an MP (with an agenda or otherwise) been an automatic authority on racism?

About 48 hours ago when Starmer decided this racist source needed their identity protecting.

You've gone from calling it a Daily Mail exaggeration, to 'why is it racist?' to the MPs in that party who've called it racist aren't authorities on racism. You really just don't give a toss when it's your team doing it do you?

 

[Tom]

I stand by all of the iterations of my point: that this is a non-story, being perpetuated through a desire to strengthen the Conservative Party’s image via pointless Labour attacks and infighting.

Of course if you’re interested in keeping the Conservative Party in power, it makes perfect sense to pursue such a narrative.

 

[Dobba]

I stand by all of the iterations of my point: that this is a non-story, being perpetuated through a desire to strengthen the Conservative Party’s image via pointless Labour attacks and infighting.

Of course if you’re interested in keeping the Conservative Party in power, it makes perfect sense to pursue such a narrative.

Keep quiet about people in the Labour Party comparing you to Hamas, Muslim voters. Also whilst they compare you to fleas too.

After they've won an election, then they'll start viewing you as human beings with votes of equal worth to everyone else. But until then please shut up, you're putting Starmer and his supporters off.

 

[Benzin]

A non-story is the stuff that came out last week relating to Angela Rayner and her house payment or whatever it was.

This is a poor choice of words given the ethnic make up of the West Midlands. Certainly vague enough to not be outrightly racist but certainly has enough connotation behind it. Especially after Galloway won a by-election based on supporting Palestine.