Galactica's Future

[WillPS]

I think since nemesis had its retrack, there have been assumptions made that every other coaster on park will fall apart when it reaches 30 years old. The forces on Galactica are nowhere near the forces experienced on Nemesis, so I expect the track to last much longer.

I could see them doing a technical overhaul of the trains though. They’re hugely complex and the “Galactica faff” during loading procedures severely hampers throughput.

Exactly this. Proven with The Runaway Mine Train, older than the original Nemesis and still operating just fine. Granted it only has one train, but the theory is correct.

Forget about the fact Nemesis needed a retrack at 28; 30-35 years old is a pretty grand age for a medium-large steel rollercoaster of any sort.

There's a reason there's not many Schwarzkopfs about any more, and it's not that they were bad rides, nor that they weren't appreciated by their riders. They're just knackered. Same goes for early Vekomas/Arrow rides to a lesser extent.

The complexity of a powered family coaster vs a flying coaster (a pioneering one at that) isn't only measurable in number of trains.

Whether it's track or something else, a day will come when Air will eventually need a large investment to keep it going. In my view, it's highly likely the park would call it a day at that point rather than make the investment (as they did with Nemesis, but opted not to do with Black Hole/Corkscrew).

 

[GJMarshy]

Forget about the fact Nemesis needed a retrack at 28; 30-35 years old is a pretty grand age for a medium-large steel rollercoaster of any sort.

There's a reason there's not many Schwarzkopfs about any more, and it's not that they were bad rides, nor that they weren't appreciated by their riders. They're just knackered. Same goes for early Vekomas/Arrow rides to a lesser extent.

The complexity of a powered family coaster vs a flying coaster (a pioneering one at that) isn't only measurable in number of trains.

Whether it's track or something else, a day will come when Air will eventually need a large investment to keep it going. In my view, it's highly likely the park would call it a day at that point rather than make the investment (as they did with Nemesis, but opted not to do with Black Hole/Corkscrew).

I wouldn't be too sure.

Modern rides are designed to last much longer than their older cousins (most of which never had good ride quality even upon opening).B&Ms, many of which from the early-mid 90s are still running and haven't even seen re-tracks. Nemesis was unique in the stresses that were put on the track, and indeed the supports. On most of their other models (Kumba, Alpengeist, Montu Etc) the stress is much less, due to the larger elements and lesser forces that aren't retained for as long. For example, the downward helix on Nemesis saw constant stress as the train is exerting a constant 3-5.5gs on riders throughout (which also represents high levels of stress on the track) Compare this with Air/Galactica or the prior B&M models mentioned where the elements are larger, with far less maintained stress levels on the track. Air/Galactica is relatively weak as B&M coasters go, and there's no elements where the track has anywhere near as much stress put on it as the likes of Nemesis. It has a good 15 years left in it easily.

The trains are indeed some of the most expensive on any rollercoaster, even billed as such on the ride's opening. However, replacing the trains and associated station mechanisms would cost a fraction of a brand new ride, which in today's money will likely cost close to 20m for a similar high-thrill coaster.

I'm pretty certain the trains will be replaced, the track will get a jet wash/paint, along with theming improvements well before any thought into a replacement coaster is given, which is likely close to 2 decades away. The ride (and model) is extremely popular with the public, and offers a quality, smooth, unique experience you can't find in many other places across Europe or even the world. The ride is a solid piece of engineering designed to last, as are most B&Ms. The Smiler is a good example of "you get what you pay for" It's notably rough, jerky and uncomfortable. If any of the major SWs are removed in the next decade or so, it'll be The Smiler (Rita if we're looking at all big thrill coasters in the park).

Air/Galactica has much life left in her yet. A second coming I'd say with the right, targeted investment.

 

[WillPS]

I wouldn't be too sure.

Modern rides are designed to last much longer than their older cousins (most of which never had good ride quality even upon opening).B&Ms, many of which from the early-mid 90s are still running and haven't even seen re-tracks. Nemesis was unique in the stresses that were put on the track, and indeed the supports. On most of their other models (Kumba, Alpengeist, Montu Etc) the stress is much less, due to the larger elements and lesser forces that aren't retained for as long. For example, the downward helix on Nemesis saw constant stress as the train is exerting a constant 3-5.5gs on riders throughout (which also represents high levels of stress on the track) Compare this with Air/Galactica or the prior B&M models mentioned where the elements are larger, with far less maintained stress levels on the track. Air/Galactica is relatively weak as B&M coasters go, and there's no elements where the track has anywhere near as much stress put on it as the likes of Nemesis. It has a good 15 years left in it easily.

The trains are indeed some of the most expensive on any rollercoaster, even billed as such on the ride's opening. However, replacing the trains and associated station mechanisms would cost a fraction of a brand new ride, which in today's money will likely cost close to 20m for a similar high-thrill coaster.

I'm pretty certain the trains will be replaced, the track will get a jet wash/paint, along with theming improvements well before any thought into a replacement coaster is given, which is likely close to 2 decades away. The ride (and model) is extremely popular with the public, and offers a quality, smooth, unique experience you can't find in many other places across Europe or even the world. The ride is a solid piece of engineering designed to last, as are most B&Ms. The Smiler is a good example of "you get what you pay for" It's notably rough, jerky and uncomfortable. If any of the major SWs are removed in the next decade or so, it'll be The Smiler (Rita if we're looking at all big thrill coasters in the park).

Air/Galactica has much life left in her yet. A second coming I'd say with the right, targeted investment.

Again, you're focussing exclusively on the track and ignoring all the many other forms of investment that may or may not be required before then. The straw that broke the camel's back for Black Hole was an evacuation platform, nothing to do with the track or even the ride itself. For Corkscrew it was the lift hill motor replacement.

I'd suggest that renewal of trains and or station gubbins is more likely to be a breaking point than track. B&M trains must cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, I can well believe a full replacement set would run in to 7 figures.

Another consideration in both the cases above (Black Hole and Corkscrew) was that the plots were being considered already for future investments, and it'd be foolish to think that Air's site isn't prime for one too. That contrasts with Nemesis, Oblivion and even Runaway Mine Train, as there's not a great deal of usable plot that removal of them would create.

 

[jibbsie]

B&M trains must cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, I can well believe a full replacement set would run in to 7 figures.

oh, a b and m flying coaster is apparently one of the most expensive trains in the industry (according to eltoro ryan) each apparently costing more than £1M,

I do agree that if it needs a new train (or refurbishment) / new control system in the future, it may cost enough to the point where getting a new ride may be more tempting.

 

[GJMarshy]

Again, you're focussing exclusively on the track and ignoring all the many other forms of investment that may or may not be required before then. The straw that broke the camel's back for Black Hole was an evacuation platform, nothing to do with the track or even the ride itself. For Corkscrew it was the lift hill motor replacement.

I'd suggest that renewal of trains and or station gubbins is more likely to be a breaking point than track. B&M trains must cost hundreds of thousands of pounds, I can well believe a full replacement set would run in to 7 figures.

Another consideration in both the cases above (Black Hole and Corkscrew) was that the plots were being considered already for future investments, and it'd be foolish to think that Air's site isn't prime for one too. That contrasts with Nemesis, Oblivion and even Runaway Mine Train, as there's not a great deal of usable plot that removal of them would create.

In my post I did acknowledge what you rightly point out about the trains and mechanisms being expensive (the most expensive coaster trains in the world at the time) however my post is replacing the trains and mechanisms will still cost far less that removing and replacing it with a brand new big thrill coaster that would likely cost close to £20m, not accounting for the cost of removal and levelling the site for such a new ride.

The park will want to minimise risk. Replacing a successful coaster with a brand new one that would cost 8-10x that of replacing the trains and mechanisms will be a far less attractive option. Especially given it has a USP and layout that can easily be enhanced with future theming elements to create what would feel like a new ride, whilst retaining the solid base it already has with the public.

 

[WillPS]

In my post I did acknowledge what you rightly point out about the trains and mechanisms being expensive (the most expensive coaster trains in the world at the time) however my post is replacing the trains and mechanisms will still cost far less that removing and replacing it with a brand new big thrill coaster that would likely cost close to £20m, not accounting for the cost of removal and levelling the site for such a new ride.

The park will want to minimise risk. Replacing a successful coaster with a brand new one that would cost 8-10x that of replacing the trains and mechanisms will be a far more attractive option. Especially given it has a USP and layout that can easily be enhanced with future theming elements to create what would feel like a new ride, whilst retaining the solid base it already has with the public.

Yes, cheaper than a new ride but much much less marketable. Again, Nemesis is likely the exception that proves the rule because it's so renowned by the public. Galactica's launch season was one of the worst years if not the worst year of Alton Towers history in terms of guest numbers - OK there was a major incident the year before which skews that rather badly, but still - it's hard to conclude it was a particularly successful endeavour.

And there's such a thing as throwing good money after bad too. It's an unreliable ride, it always has been. They're not the most reliable ride types and Air has always struggled more than others on account of being the first and lacking the refinements B&M added later.

 

[Ash]

The whole thing needs plussing. Has done for years:

New planting, landscaping, water features and rock work similar to the concepts.

New nighttime lighting

Queue line theming/tidy up

New pre show

Better station departure sequence

Tunnel special effects (screens/projectors/smoke/lighting/fans etc)

New shop/merch

Return with the original name/theme and tie in with the rest of FV

£1m would go a long way

 

[rob666]

The whole thing needs plussing. ...

£1m would go a long way

Sadly, a million is peanuts in the industry.
It would barely scratch the surface when the ride has been badly neglected for years.

 

[Jb85]

The whole thing needs plussing. Has done for years:

New planting, landscaping, water features and rock work similar to the concepts.

New nighttime lighting

Queue line theming/tidy up

New pre show

Better station departure sequence

Tunnel special effects (screens/projectors/smoke/lighting/fans etc)

New shop/merch

Return with the original name/theme and tie in with the rest of FV

£1m would go a long way

Still wouldn’t resolve the technical issues.

 

[QTXAdsy]

Yes, cheaper than a new ride but much much less marketable. Again, Nemesis is likely the exception that proves the rule because it's so renowned by the public. Galactica's launch season was one of the worst years if not the worst year of Alton Towers history in terms of guest numbers - OK there was a major incident the year before which skews that rather badly, but still - it's hard to conclude it was a particularly successful endeavour.

And there's such a thing as throwing good money after bad too. It's an unreliable ride, it always has been. They're not the most reliable ride types and Air has always struggled more than others on account of being the first and lacking the refinements B&M added later.

If they wanted to return Air with a marketing strategy which is nothing more than a major overhaul of its computer system and new trains, they can always make it more than just that.

I've said this before many times but if they were to landscape that whole ride ares into something akin to Air's planned concept art then the chance is there to rebuild the area into it's own themed area separate from Forbidden Valley then add a flat ride or two and Bob's yer uncle, you can market a whole new area of the park while doing an Galactica/Air overhaul as part of it and I haven't mentioned the car park behind the ride that everyone seems to think is future expansion.

Yes it might cost a bit but even without the cost of what new trains would be but it's not all impossible and not the most expensive compared to a full retrack and a new area will help marketing wise unless you are TWODW but that's very much the exception.

 

[Mhoowee]

The whole thing needs plussing. Has done for years:

New planting, landscaping, water features and rock work similar to the concepts.

New nighttime lighting

Queue line theming/tidy up

New pre show

Better station departure sequence

Tunnel special effects (screens/projectors/smoke/lighting/fans etc)

New shop/merch

Return with the original name/theme and tie in with the rest of FV

£1m would go a long way

Having a Preshow on a ride like Galactica would be hard, and would slow down operations, I think a walking preshow would work better like the ones on the curse and nemesis.

 

[Trooper Looper]

Or don't have a preshow, that's an option. Some rides benefit from not having an overarching story or preshow, and I think air is one of them.

 

[Jb85]

Question is - do we ever think the car park will get built on. Rumoured for years but there have never been any signs of anything being planned or even surveyed.

 

[Ash]

If they wanted to return Air with a marketing strategy which is nothing more than a major overhaul of its computer system and new trains, they can always make it more than just that.

I've said this before many times but if they were to landscape that whole ride ares into something akin to Air's planned concept art then the chance is there to rebuild the area into it's own themed area separate from Forbidden Valley then add a flat ride or two and Bob's yer uncle, you can market a whole new area of the park while doing an Galactica/Air overhaul as part of it and I haven't mentioned the car park behind the ride that everyone seems to think is future expansion.

Yes it might cost a bit but even without the cost of what new trains would be but it's not all impossible and not the most expensive compared to a full retrack and a new area will help marketing wise unless you are TWODW but that's very much the exception.

I’d say depends on how major the control system overhaul is. I’m sure from memory air used wireless comms to communicate to sensors on the craft so that may be interesting but assuming they just want to swap out the PLC, (It’s a Siemens system so guessing it’s s7-400F/FH dual redundant safety with all the bells and whistles) but they aren’t obsolete until at least 2030 so it may not be anywhere near as critical as other rides/systems.

Swapping that out for an equivalent s7-1500 is less than a year project development wise and probably a couple of months on site.

 

[rob666]

Question is - do we ever think the car park will get built on. Rumoured for years but there have never been any signs of anything being planned or even surveyed.

Doubt it, they struggle for decent parking as it is on peak days still don't they?
Big drained car parks aren't that cheap.

 

[AT86]

Doubt it, they struggle for decent parking as it is on peak days still don't they?
Big drained car parks aren't that cheap.

Agreed. Not only would they need the budget to build whatever ride they were putting on the car park, they also need the budget to replace the parking elsewhere which wouldn’t be cheap, or easy from a planning point of view.

 

[rob666]

Unless they slapped a big coaster in on stilts, with a net under for the parking to remain.

 

[AT86]

Unless they slapped a big coaster in on stilts, with a net under for the parking to remain.

World’s first actual car park coaster.

 

[Ash]

Question is - do we ever think the car park will get built on. Rumoured for years but there have never been any signs of anything being planned or even surveyed.

I really hope so. It’s such a valuable piece of land. They could do so much with it.

A small second gate
Entire indoor area/park
New ride area
New “city walk” type area supported with other small attractions

 

[Trooper Looper]

With all this talk of a retheme, and as much as I love the air theme, I don't think that means that fans of its current theme should be ignored, its pretty widely agreed on that the portal is a great and welcomed piece of theming, the problem is that they'd probably remove it for its next theme sadly. I uploaded this on the Art thread, but I did a sketch on how the Galactica portal could be fitted into the original theme. Take the fins off, repaint it to a shiny chrome grey, put some rock work at the bottom to look like it's connected to the ground, and if you're lucky, add a few water effects, and maybe a little pond in front of it. It may look different, but at least there is something for those who were a fan of the Galactica theme while it compliments the new (well, old) theme.