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- Ride was experiencing problems all day and had experienced a technically difficultly shortly before (this isn't particularly unusual but does give precedent to the events that followed)
- Issue is resolved and a test train or trains were sent around the track
- For whatever reason staff were confident that the ride should continue to operate and another train (train 2 which was full) was sent on it's way shortly after train 1 (which was empty)
- Train 1 valleyed due to the strong winds that were occurring that day and did not clear the block section of the track
- Train 2 was then stopped on the lift due to the blocking system flagging that Train 1 had not cleared the blocks
- Whether or not the staff in the station were aware of the valleyed train or weren't, it would appear and engineer was called due to the train 2 stopping on the lift
- There was a 5-10 minute wait whilst train 2 sat on the top of the lift before it resumed
- Here there are a few possibilities; due to the issues experienced earlier in the day and normally throughout the year there seems to have been a lapse in judgement. Whether it was the fact that the vallyed train had not been spotted or whether the valleyed train had not been communicated effectively to the engineer. The system was likely overrode or reset, therefore resetting the status of all block sections. As there are no sensors on the batwing section of track, the valleyed car would not have been picked up by the system after a reset, therefore effectively allowing the ride to resume normal operation. I believe from my limited knowledge that the reset of the ride would not occur within the loading station and likely would occur elsewhere. Therefore even had the ride ops known of the issue, if they had no easy way to communicate to the engineer, a simple misunderstanding could not have been corrected once the ride was set in motion without very quick reactions (the ride was at the top of the crest).
- They could re-profile the track (costly and time consuming - unlikely but a guaranteed result)
- Add additional sensors where the train normally valleys, these sensors will not allow another train to enter the block section if they are currently detecting an object (will not stop the valleying but will halt the system even after a reset has occured)
- Decrease the amount of trim applied (not sure if this is feasible)
- Increase the lift speed
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Incident on The Smiler 02/06/2015
Croftybaby
TS Member
Apparently SAW is closed at Thorpe today.... related? Just tweeted Oakwood to ask about Speed.
Oakwood only tend to use one train anyway.
This video is also interesting... the first witness...
Train was stalled for about 10 minutes. Train on the lift hill for 10 minutes. I hate to say it, but I seriously wonder if a manual override was done.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32978750
Train was stalled for about 10 minutes. Train on the lift hill for 10 minutes. I hate to say it, but I seriously wonder if a manual override was done.....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-32978750
Croftybaby
TS Member
Makes you realise the force that would have been needed to pushed the empty car so far up the roll so that it could both could travel backwards so far.That's awful to watch, how helpless they are as they swing back and forth. Christ
Here's my opinion based on multiple eye witness accounts that have been posted.
I'm almost certain that based on the reports the system functioned correctly and stopped the train before incident occurred. If you think about previous valleys, the train is removed from the track and therefore does not clear the blocking section. It is therefore relatively clear that the block system can be overridden or reset in cases like this.
In my personal opinion I'm guessing that staff overlooked the valleyed car and instead focused on the train which got stuck on the lift or there was a communication error upon which the engineer had not known about the valleyed car and had overrode the system before resuming operation of the ride.
How can they fix it?
I'm going in 20 days and this would not have stopped me riding.
I'm almost certain that based on the reports the system functioned correctly and stopped the train before incident occurred. If you think about previous valleys, the train is removed from the track and therefore does not clear the blocking section. It is therefore relatively clear that the block system can be overridden or reset in cases like this.
In my personal opinion I'm guessing that staff overlooked the valleyed car and instead focused on the train which got stuck on the lift or there was a communication error upon which the engineer had not known about the valleyed car and had overrode the system before resuming operation of the ride.
How can they fix it?
I'm going in 20 days and this would not have stopped me riding.
pluk
TS Member
Thoughts have to be with those injured, that witnessed it, the staff that responded and the emergency service workers, who all must have seen some sights today, things that will live with each and every one of them for years to come.
That train was clearly shifting to push the empty one so far up the incline. Sadly I fairly regularly see the results of high speed impacts first hand through RTC's and the like at work and my first thought was that the front row would all have very serious leg impact injuries, or most probably losses. Having since seen the pictures and video from other angles it seems the front of the laden carriage is pretty well embedded into the back of the other one. I fear the DM article will turn out to be accurate and I would expect more bad news to come. The length of time it too to evacuate suggests there were crush injures which had to be dealt with before the trains could be pulled apart to release those trapped. If someone has something crushed you can't just release it.
As for how it can have happened, I'm sure it will have been a culmination of a series of errors rather than a single thing. It should be very difficult indeed to put the system into a position where this is possible with or without passengers. The first thing I thought as odd was towards the end of that BBC video as the camera pans away it shows that there was another stalled train on the second half of the track, so two stalls at once. Could it be possible that the first stall has triggered a shut down, the second stall has happened simultaneously, so when it has come to the evac the operators have decided to move the train on from the first lift hill to get it to the vertical lift brake run rather than evacuate at height, thinking they were only dealing with the second stall? That would account for an element of system override human error coupled with a system allowing something that should not be allowed that I think will both be present. Just a theory. I struggle to think of another logical series of events that make it possible.
That train was clearly shifting to push the empty one so far up the incline. Sadly I fairly regularly see the results of high speed impacts first hand through RTC's and the like at work and my first thought was that the front row would all have very serious leg impact injuries, or most probably losses. Having since seen the pictures and video from other angles it seems the front of the laden carriage is pretty well embedded into the back of the other one. I fear the DM article will turn out to be accurate and I would expect more bad news to come. The length of time it too to evacuate suggests there were crush injures which had to be dealt with before the trains could be pulled apart to release those trapped. If someone has something crushed you can't just release it.
As for how it can have happened, I'm sure it will have been a culmination of a series of errors rather than a single thing. It should be very difficult indeed to put the system into a position where this is possible with or without passengers. The first thing I thought as odd was towards the end of that BBC video as the camera pans away it shows that there was another stalled train on the second half of the track, so two stalls at once. Could it be possible that the first stall has triggered a shut down, the second stall has happened simultaneously, so when it has come to the evac the operators have decided to move the train on from the first lift hill to get it to the vertical lift brake run rather than evacuate at height, thinking they were only dealing with the second stall? That would account for an element of system override human error coupled with a system allowing something that should not be allowed that I think will both be present. Just a theory. I struggle to think of another logical series of events that make it possible.
Longer video of the aftermath - look how close the front passengers are slammed up into the back of the other one.
The words "Stop it" are being shouted by the guy at the front. He throws his arms at the exact moment it's shouted. Pretty sure it's him.
Alastair
TS Team
The first thing I thought as odd was towards the end of that BBC video as the camera pans away it shows that there was another stalled train on the second half of the track, so two stalls at once. Could it be possible that the first stall has triggered a shut down, the second stall has happened simultaneously, so when it has come to the evac the operators have decided to move the train on from the first lift hill to get it to the vertical lift brake run rather than evacuate at height, thinking they were only dealing with the second stall? That would account for an element of system override human error coupled with a system allowing something that should not be allowed that I think will both be present. Just a theory. I struggle to think of another logical series of events that make it possible.
The incident only involved two trains. That particular clip cuts abruptly to show the first train stalled on the track in the second half of the video for some reason, which looks like the same clip.
Croftybaby
TS Member
I think that video has been edited. The second train is the stalled train before impact.
Guy on Radio 2 - ex ride op, says that he worked under Tussaud's and Merlin. He says that Merlin in their training just do H&S training to tick the boxes and are more concerned with not being sued that anything else and feels they cut corners. Says that Tussauds were a lot more professional in their training and customer focus.
Interesting.....
Interesting.....
phildenholm
TS Member
Guy on Radio 2 - ex ride op, says that he worked under Tussaud's and Merlin. He says that Merlin in their training just do H&S training to tick the boxes and are more concerned with not being sued that anything else and feels they cut corners. Says that Tussauds were a lot more professional in their training and customer focus.
Interesting.....
Ex employees always have a lot to say doesn't make it true
cotda
TS Member
The smiler has broken down/required an evac on the first lift hill before (e.g. during the celeb preview), they evaced on the lift hill and didn't bring the train back down. So I'd expect that the theory of stopped for 10 mins before attempting to bring the train back down is incorrect.
The only possible answers are
1) Software bug, unlikely seeing as the train was already stopped for around 10 mins
2) Human error involving reset of block systems. No idea how this process is undertaken, I hope this isn't possible from the op booth alone, as there isn't enough CCTV coverage to make this feasible.
The only possible answers are
1) Software bug, unlikely seeing as the train was already stopped for around 10 mins
2) Human error involving reset of block systems. No idea how this process is undertaken, I hope this isn't possible from the op booth alone, as there isn't enough CCTV coverage to make this feasible.
I can hear a girl screaming out as they rock back and forth...... makes me shudder, could have been any one of us on that.....
Also, 0:10 you can hear someone shout "Help us"
2) Human error involving reset of block systems. No idea how this process is undertaken, I hope this isn't possible from the op booth alone, as there isn't enough CCTV coverage to make this feasible.
Dare I say it, but i'm thinking human error too. The fact the one train had stopped on the lift hill indicated that the safety system had cut in and prevented it carrying on. Given the ride was having tech problems all day, engineers probably were there and not aware that an empty train had been sent out and probably thought the "red light" was another glitch and then decided to override the system.
