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Wicker Man - General Discussion - Part Two

That's less of a problem when the "correct" number of people are in each bay. It gets more difficult to judge when you have several people in each bay on every row.
 
Yeah, that was mostly old information, I do feel like the boring corner needed banking, It's really noticable when the ride is running fast.
 
Well done to Mark Fisher giving John that call!

I love Wicker Man but can't help feel how much better it could have been if John was more heavily involved from the start. It's a huge shame the person who was most passionate about building a woodie at Towers was the one person not on the project team from day one!

I personally don't mind boring corner, it's over in 2 seconds and you're back on the more exciting elements anyway.

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That, on the whole, is a thoroughly depressing read. Bet John felt sick to his stomach when her received that first call, such disrespect from a company he gave so much to.

How on earth can the hierarchy of Merlin be in such a mess that the people a the top think the most prominent and prolific ride designer they have, that they are clearly well aware has for a number of years been actively designing the exact thing they now want, is involved in a project which has progressed all the way to the contracts being signed, when he knows nothing about it. Shambles.

People seem generally happy with Wickerman, mostly because the theme is well delivered while the ride just scrapes 'good enough'. I wonder how amazing the whole could have been if the actual ride was decent in the first place?
 
Quote me if I am wrong but doesn't nemesis have a turnaround that is boring compared to the rest of the ride?
 
Not as much as Wickerman, the Nemesis turn around is more of a stall turn.

Wardley's prescence on the first section is very noticeable.
 
IanSR said:
Holy crap 1995 called John they want Netscape back.
But an interesting read all the same, I already knew some of that story but can imagine that is the polite version.
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I think just the very fact he felt he needed to put that out there says that there’s a less polite version!
 


Strange how John Wardley describes the same conversation a bit differently a year ago, where he said it was between Ian Crabbe over lunch in August and not Mark Fisher on the phone in October? But that Fisher then got him involved at that request.

I think it makes it obvious that Merlin's development team did it without asking John, but that it was Alton Towers' own concerns about the project that got John involved, which clearly improved the ride.

Seems to me that Merlin's development team screwed John over by denying his wooden coaster appeals countless times. But let's bear in mind this is only JW's version of events.

He's clearly irritated they keep asking him to add his name to projects, rather than fully involving him for the actual designs. And it showed how pointless Merlin's years of denial about a wooden coaster was, and how quickly all the 'research' was debunked when the ride opened.
 
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TakeYourMedicine said:
But I'm in no doubt that Merlin's development team screwed John over by denying his wooden coaster appeals countless times
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I think most of the no to a wooden Coaster was from Tussauds, before Merlin bought them out. I remember it coming up at the Nemesis 10th birthday event in 2004 and the the outgoing park manager explained they don’t poll well with the public who see them as old and unsafe. So it’s not a recent Merlin thing, the woodies are bad ethos was a Tussauds thing.

It may actually be the changes in management recently that allowed a woodie. The channel 4 programme certainly gave the impression it was Bradley Wynne who pushed for the project.

Also of course after the Smiler incident a lot of people viewed all coasters as unsafe so it may also be that the park felt it worth taking the risk on something different.

I agree it seems rude that someone at the park didn’t call John earlier, but at the same time he was retired and Bradley was effectively doing John’s old job. How many people would call retired staff at work to ask their opinion on a project?
 
jon81uk said:
So it’s not a recent Merlin thing, the woodies are bad ethos was a Tussauds thing.
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Well by that time, Tussauds and Merlin were pretty much the same company using the same blindly marketing-led tactics, just with a top change of management. Merlin certainly continued to deny the wooden coaster for years, there's a relatively recent interview somewhere I remember from Nick Varney saying they just couldnt do a wooden coaster. Somehow the company were finally persuaded to change their opinion after years, bringing everyone a really fun wooden coaster at last!


jon81uk said:
The channel 4 programme certainly gave the impression it was Bradley Wynne who pushed for the project
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I wouldnt put much thought into any part of that programme. Bradley as a creative designer most likely had zero influence over what gets built at parks and when, those decisions are made by Merlin's development board. He was more directing how the theme and experience turned out.


jon81uk said:
I agree it seems rude that someone at the park didn’t call John earlier, but at the same time he was retired and Bradley was effectively doing John’s old job.
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Not really because John Wardley was a park development director along with a couple others, not a creative designer, though he would get very involved in the actual layout proposals, ride types, give the starting point to a theme. He gave the 'brief' if you like, to which the ride would be designed.

There were creative designers who were doing a role similar to Bradley back at the time of Nemesis, etc. Only difference was they didn't get featured on TV.

The decision to have John as the figurehead or 'designer' of all these rides was deliberate because it makes it more promotable, same with the decision to feature Bradley as 'creative genius behind the Wicker Man' on this one. There's actually a whole lot more two it, and the two of them were doing very different jobs.
 
I think people need to remember that Wicker Man is, by Merlin standards at least, quite a low budget 'high capex' year. Remember: It cost the same as Th13teen, which opened 8 years earlier, and £3m less than Smiler.

With the size of the land available and the height restrictions, it was never going to be an amazing layout, whether Wardley was or was not involved.

Thankfully, the average layout has been significantly enhanced by the quality of the theming and package.
 
jon81uk said:
the outgoing park manager explained they don’t poll well with the public who see them as old and unsafe. So it’s not a recent Merlin thing, the woodies are bad ethos was a Tussauds thing.

It may actually be the changes in management recently that allowed a woodie. The channel 4 programme certainly gave the impression it was Bradley Wynne who pushed for the project.
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What is all this woodies are unsafe business based on exactly? I just don’t get if!
 
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