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Racism within social media

Tibble

TS Member
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It is disgusting to see players like Sako, Rashford, Sterling, Mings and Sancho being racially abused after the football match last night.

It brings up the burning question of how do social media companies sort the racism issue on their platforms?

People bring up the idea of having to submit a form of ID to be able to use the platform as then they have your details.

But an idea i like is to have to send a Pin number out to anyone who signs up. That way they have a record of their full and correct address. But is this really enough?
 
Hate on any social media or even in day to day real life is not acceptable and I've not got the time for anyone that commits Hate. There is no need or excuse for it what so ever.

I've a diverse of friends. Some of my best friends are from the Bame community, Gay community and disability community.

In this country we have the "Stop Hate Campaign" and in football we have the "Kick It Out Campaign"

The trouble with society, we have these laws, but unless you have substantial evidence, there is not much the law can do to take action.
 
The main thing that can be done is the ensure consequences for the actions of those who post such things.

However this is understandably difficult given most of the posters aren't always obvious or even in the UK.

I'll never understand the thought process of those who do this. But I knew it would happen straight after the game ended last night.

In terms of submitting ID, there are some issues, namely potential for identity thefts and hacking attempts to get this information. Then you also have those who may only be able to use social media as a freedom of expression due to family or cultural issues. It's not that simple to add in.
 
I think the issues with Kick it out and Stop Hate is they are great on the surface but I think a lot of the scum who are racist / homophobic / commit hate dont think it applies to them and they are 'joking'. Which is of course wrong,

I think as a country we need to push further than any before to show its not acceptable.

I see also that someone who works for Savills posted a racist comment on twitter has closed all his accounts and they have posted a statement saying an investigation is taking place
 
It’s not even about education anymore

It’s a problem with a small % of society

These will be the ones who break lock down, refuse the vaccine, think the rules don’t apply to them

I’m sorry but the issue in society is far wider than just racism - we have to look at eliminating the yobbish mentality a proportion of our country has

I feel honoured to have those players represent our country - they will never read this but if they did I want each and everyone of them to know we’re proud of you
 
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I can't say I'm a fan of social media. It seems to bring out the worst elements of society.

The platforms are full of hate and misinformation. The social media companies make token efforts to control it but you don't have to delve too deep beneath the surface to find it.

I think part of the problem is the business model is based on advertising and therefore about getting a wide reach; the idea of things trending or "going viral". That naturally encourages things that are controversial or populist.

I don't know what the solution is. It's difficult to moderate the content when it's on such a scale. Automation doesn't seem to be doing much to remove offensive content on its own.

There's also questions about who should decide what is and isn't acceptable. As much as I cheered when Trump got banned from Facebook and Twitter, it does make me a bit uneasy for big corporations to hold such power. Somehow it needs to be regulated democratically. For the community to decide what is and isn't acceptable, and a regulatory body to hold them to account. Perhaps some peer moderation tools like Wikipedia might help.
 
I have personally seen zero racist comments on my feeds about the football.
I have seen many many posts from people angry about racist post that they mostly haven't seen themselves but have read about second hand.

Of course, there should be no racist posts and there should be proper legal repercussions for those who do, but surely it is heartening that the reality is nearly noone actually makes such posts and almost everyone vehemently rallies against them? The response is a great display of cohesion, not division
 
I also haven’t seen any racist comments on any of my feeds, only the ineptness of Southgate and a fan with a flare bizarrely stuck up his bottom.

Again that’s not belittling the issue just that’s it’s heartening to know it’s not completely wide spread.
 
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Countless condemnation, taking the knee and lobbying social media companies has done - and in all likelihood will continue to do - nothing.

The answer is less palatable than what I think many would care to accept. For me, that answer is the very authoritarian approach many of these fascists would otherwise like.

Hunt down one of these abusers at random and issue a five-year custodial sentence - then things might start to change.

Only the enforcing State can be the answer, but that is the paradox for many liberals when it comes to social change.
 
It brings up the burning question of how do social media companies sort the racism issue on their platforms?
I am in the camp that thinks it's almost impossible. It's like trying to determine how you make dog fights less inhumane or a single party state more democratic.

Social media platforms are as they are because it's inherent in the way that they operate, if you can post without people knowing who you are, from multiple accounts, in 240 characters, where you can self select the content that you see, it's not going to be sunshine, lollipops and rainbows.

It's a pretty insoluble problem unless you completely rework how they function.
 
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When you think of the millions and millions of people on social media then it is almost inevitable you are going to get a few low lives on there. I am guessing some wont even be English and will just want to add fuel to the fire.

I don't think any amount of education or anti racist campaigns are going to change the behaviour of a few morons.
 
One thing that comes across a lot is that Racism is taught and not inherited, kids learning from those around them at a young age racism and assuming its ok.

It just baffles me that someone could decide after a game of football, 'Right time to go send some Monkey emojis to a player'

I guess the animosity of it means they believe they won't be found out
 
I wonder if people who post this kind of crap also feel like they're in similar company and that makes it more acceptable to them. They're surrounded ("egged on" if you wish) by their peers. It's like when you get a group of lads together being all cocky and aggressive, but if you get one on their own then suddenly the bravado disappears.
 
One thing I can't stand is the utter drivel that the poor defenceless social media companies can't do anything about it. Well tough titty! I don't give two craps if Facebook or Twitter need to find a magical way to somehow stamp this out, they chose to go into the business they're in, they chose to try and make money from it so need to be held accountable.

They hide behind the nonsensical argument that they're just websites for people to express themselves on and that they're limited in what they can do. That's like a national newspaper printing a reader's opinion page full of racism and the paper turning round and saying they can't do anything about it. Social media companies are publishers at the end of the day. The fact they publish online and allow people to publish what they want on their platforms is irrelevant, that's their problem, they chose that business model.

The whole freedom of speech Trumpian thing is also a trash argument. They are sites setup to make profit. If someone wants to have the freedom to say what they want on the internet, they're still free to do so. These social media companies don't have to let them on theirs. You can't go onto private property and say what you like, you can't go to a print publisher and demand they print whatever you want them to. No difference here whether it's digital or not. You make the platform, you have responsibility for what is said on that platform. If the technology doesn't exist and they're not capable of controlling what is published on their platforms then they shouldn't be in business, if they can't take the heat then get out of the kitchen.

Lastly, regarding the racist abuse, I have seen some of it but only second hand. But what we must remember is that Saka is just 19 years old. He was born in this century. Racist abuse is bad enough but by grown men against a 19 year old? A 19 year old who has parents my age? That's even more sickening.
 
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People seem to forget that you're free to say whatever you like, but doesn't keep you free from consequences.

Unfortunately when you get commenters saying that Tyrone Mings (who basically called Priti Patel out on her faux outrage on the racism after stoking the fire by standing there and saying people are free to boo the taking of the knee), shouldn't be picked for the national team, and be forced to apologise and "submit" (wonder why a white man would use that word eh?) to those in a higher up role, then it goes to show exactly why people think they are completely free to express whatever small minded nonsense they can and expect no consequences.

The belittling language ("you should stick to football") shows the contempt people in charge have for those who dare to stand against them. Its little wonder the England team refused to meet Boris Johnson considering the way in which things have been dealt with. And that he's not innocent in this whole problem either. Letterboxes and watermelons come to mind.
 
Obviously racism is a appauling thing.

But I worry that actually this huge media campaign about the controversy paints the entire country (whether intentionally or not) as more racist than it really is, based off some Twitter idiots nobody has seen. Which will firstly never make racist people change their mind, and distracts from far more serious racial issues of abuse and discrimination—than just some idiots posting on Twitter.

Am I totally ignorant to the real scale of the problem? Maybe.

But also, will it create more division than unity, giving some people more reason to believe they are being policed for freedom of speech, and likewise lead the others to become more angry with a perceived racist society.

Either would be valid, if only either were true enough to give reason to worry. Some idiot tweets Im not so sure is worth it. Both risk painting a baseless 'other' to hate.

And unfortunately, nobody really knows, you can't exactly get a balanced picture from the media anymore. I just worry.
 
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Obviously racism is a appauling thing.

But I worry that actually this huge media campaign about the controversy paints the entire country (whether intentionally or not) as more racist than it really is, based off some Twitter idiots nobody has seen. Which will firstly never make racist people change their mind, and distracts from far more serious racial issues of abuse and discrimination—than just some idiots posting on Twitter.

Am I totally ignorant to the real scale of the problem? Maybe.

But also, will it create more division than unity, giving some people more reason to believe they are being policed for freedom of speech, and likewise lead the others to become more angry and disillusioned with society.

Either would be valid, if only either were true enough to give reason to worry. Some idiot tweets Im not so sure is worth it. Both risk painting a baseless 'other' to hate.

And unfortunately, nobody really knows, you can't exactly get a balanced picture from the media anymore. I just worry.
You make some good points actually. We can run round saying that the English are racist and end up making the problem worse with over corrective actions that actually drive more division. I dislike terms such as "the INSERT RACIAL OR SEXUAL GROUPING/STEREOTYPE HERE community". Already, social media is awash with derogatory comments about "the English" and "White People" and "Men" which doesn't help anybody. They don't represent me.

That's why I solely blame social media companies. Bad people will always exist, social media companies provide them with a platform to speak from for profit. They also give foreign governments, who we know have also used their tools to interfere with democratic elections, a platform to divide our country. Many of the comments made came from abroad. I suspect they'll be some metaphorical high fiving in Beijing and Moscow over all this.
 
Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences.

If you go round using the n word (with a hard r) then likelihood is you're gonna get a response.

And if you double down your opinion (like that comedian) and don't apologise or accept that you used inappropriate language then expect to lose things as a result of it. Be it job or beyond. People are stupid enough to have their personal information online open for anyone to find, so if you say stupid things expect responses.

There's zero defence for anyone using such language or directing it at players. The sad fact is I knew straight off that those 3 lads would be subject to it. Maybe ostracising those who seem to think there's nothing wrong with that would be best? Keep them to their nonsense without hurting people.

You make some good points actually. We can run round saying that the English are racist and end up making the problem worse with over corrective actions that actually drive more division. I dislike terms such as "the INSERT RACIAL OR SEXUAL GROUPING/STEREOTYPE HERE community". Already, social media is awash with derogatory comments about "the English" and "White People" and "Men" which doesn't help anybody. They don't represent me.

What's wrong with the community stuff? Like, a group of people who share a singular of multiple traits would be classed as one?

The derogatory comments are usually directed at those deserving of it from what I've seen. Certainly wasn't Russian bots causing the nonsense at Wembley. And given how some men seem to use not only the Internet but the real world as their personal entitled playground it's often somewhat deserving. It's similar to calling a particular type of woman a "Karen", whereas they find it offensive usually because it involves being called out on their nonsense.

We all know that it's "not all men" or "not all white people", but I things are left unchecked and there is little or zero response to people (on a public website) doing these things then it just escalates.

That is far more divisive than a Facebook group called "Men are on thin ice" full of examples of toxic masculinity.
 
I think the reason that this has been so prominent in the news is partially as we're in the second summer from a huge social reckoning involving Black lives, but also as it is completely unprecedented to have a leadership like Johnson's, which sanctioned booing of taking the knee, a universal gesture intended to acknowledge unity. As has been noted in a satisfyingly public manner by the players, power and influence have a net effect. That's why people are desperate for it.

I agree that the relatively small number of tweets versus the sheer number of English people who watched the match and didn't tweet racist abuse at anyone means this does feel a little blown out of proportion, but then, I wouldn't want to eclipse how terrible this must feel for the players and other Black citizens who have been through this themselves. The young England team did an amazing job in all, and it feels like a corner is being turned in terms of discourse.

Social media is largely dreadful, and Twitter is inherently toxic and fundamentally divisive, and that's even before you get to their unwillingness to deal with hate and abuse. I don't want to come across too conservative about it, as I am willing to recognise its strengths and that it's simply baked into our lives in this age. But I strongly believe it will be thought of in the same way as smoking in front of children as soon as people, probably another generation from now, begin to reject it.

Stepping away from most of it has even hurt my career, but given that I don't want my mental health and success controlled entirely by addictive, profiteering algorithms, it's a choice that I've become proud of. It's also the best way to find yourself not getting needlessly caught up in manufactured Karens/Gammons v Snowflake 'culture wars' that studies on both the left and right are consistently proving to be effective methods of control, arguably the contemporary 'strivers versus skivers' narrative.
 
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