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Broome Era Towers

I also think that with Towers St it would have ended up closer to the current design no matter what, the change to being a theme park, rather than a stately home with a collection of amusement rides would have changed the type of shopping offered no matter who ran the park. I just don't feel that guests would have still been interested in multiple shops that weren't selling "souvenirs".
However the restaurant and café spaces on Towers St definitely have been ruined even compared to what they 15-20 years ago.
 
I also think that with Towers St it would have ended up closer to the current design no matter what, the change to being a theme park, rather than a stately home with a collection of amusement rides would have changed the type of shopping offered no matter who ran the park. I just don't feel that guests would have still been interested in multiple shops that weren't selling "souvenirs".
However the restaurant and café spaces on Towers St definitely have been ruined even compared to what they 15-20 years ago.
I think you're right about the shops. No way was a fine china and a doll shop ever going to last very long. Elsewhere in the park, neither was the Swiss Cottage sadly.

But I think the redesign of replacing beautiful flower beds and frogs squirting water above your head over the pathways was just a quick cynical money saving excercise. The frogs were relegated to squirting at each other in 1 larger enclosed pond and the rest just replaced with random patches of boring grass.

The implementation of Towers Trading as one big unit followed the same strategy. It was cheaper to run that way but took something away from the living, breathing street feel. Look at how horrid the area between the entrance and exit of Towers Trading looks today, especially the bit with the coaster stickers in the windows. It went from Victorian High Street to just plain tacky pretty quickly in the 90's and looks pretty amateur now. I wish Tussauds and Merlin had done something to make Towers Street feel more lively and lived in like Main Street USA. You can still see the majesty of the original design when you look down from the top towards the Towers, but up close it feels fake, 2 dimensional, dilapidated and tacky and that started in the early 90's.
 
I wish Tussauds and Merlin had done something to make Towers Street feel more lively and lived in like Main Street USA. You can still see the majesty of the original design when you look down from the top towards the Towers, but up close it feels fake, 2 dimensional, dilapidated and tacky and that started in the early 90's.
I get what you mean, and to an extent I do agree with you, as I think it might have been nice to see Towers Street get utilised to a greater extent, but out of interest, what sort of ways do you think the park could have gone about doing this?

I only ask as I’ll admit I’m unsure how they could have done it aside from keeping the shops from the 80s open… why did John Broome go with such an eclectic range of shops when initially designing Towers Street? I don’t think I’ve ever known a theme park where you can buy furniture, glassware, ceramics, and designer clothes, amongst other items described in TowersStreet’s account of the shops originally on TowersStreet (https://towersstreet.com/theme-park/area/towers-street#pastshops)…
 
The implementation of Towers Trading as one big unit followed the same strategy. It was cheaper to run that way but took something away from the living, breathing street feel. Look at how horrid the area between the entrance and exit of Towers Trading looks toda

Disney main street is basically all one shop as well though on the inside, its just the exteriors that look like different shops and with Towers St I would say it was the move to having checkouts at one end and the entrance at the other which changed the feel of the shop the most, but yes the window covers need more regular changes.
 
I get what you mean, and to an extent I do agree with you, as I think it might have been nice to see Towers Street get utilised to a greater extent, but out of interest, what sort of ways do you think the park could have gone about doing this?

I only ask as I’ll admit I’m unsure how they could have done it aside from keeping the shops from the 80s open… why did John Broome go with such an eclectic range of shops when initially designing Towers Street? I don’t think I’ve ever known a theme park where you can buy furniture, glassware, ceramics, and designer clothes, amongst other items described in TowersStreet’s account of the shops originally on TowersStreet (https://towersstreet.com/theme-park/area/towers-street#pastshops)…

I think it is the design of the street not the utilisation which is the bigger issue.
 
Main Street USA is an attraction in and of itself tho; Disney have an infinite amount of tat to flog you and an infinite amount of demand for it.

I expect the payback for Towers Street, and the justification for the high-maintenance features, was supposed to be in the rental from retail offerings - like you say it's obvious in hindsight that was never going to work, and it never did.

Britannia Park made similar bizarre claims about somehow being a shopping destination in and of its own right, as if there is a place for one inside a pay-on-entry tourist attraction. Unless you've got an incredibly strong and wide-appeal IP, that's not going to work.
 
I expect the payback for Towers Street, and the justification for the high-maintenance features, was supposed to be in the rental from retail offerings - like you say it's obvious in hindsight that was never going to work, and it never did.

Britannia Park made similar bizarre claims about somehow being a shopping destination in and of its own right, as if there is a place for one inside a pay-on-entry tourist attraction. Unless you've got an incredibly strong and wide-appeal IP, that's not going to work.
Were the shops on Towers Street originally externally operated, then, in a similar vein to a shopping mall (albeit on a far smaller scale)? Are you saying that the shop owners would have paid rent to John Broome/Alton Towers, who would have used the money on upkeep of the street?

Why do you feel the approach didn’t work, out of interest? I could have sworn I read that Europa Park did something very similar with their entrance street, as well as Holiday Park…

Shopping was clearly just seen as a more important part of theme parks in the 80s than it is now. Maybe Broome saw it as something for non-riders to do?
 
Well there are simple things they can, and believe it or not have done that take away from this feeling. Towers Street on the whole feels to me like your local shopping mall where shops have closed and the owners of the mall have chucked up window graphics of books and shoes to try and mask the amount of unused shuttered outlets. It's clear that trying to get people to buy a chair or a new fine dinner ware set in a paid entry theme park is insane (weren't they even selling grandfather clocks at one point?) Towers Trading sells everything they need and is a sustainable, practical way of doing so.

But things like having the photo kiosk when it was open made a difference. Although garish, the Cbeebies hotel show room did this. Even moving guest services breaths some life back into the top of the street. Something extremely mundane like a small indoor ATM lobby with a bank themed exterior makes the street feel more lived in. I've always been fully opposed to the closure of Towers Street Bar and Grill, which just makes that whole corner of TS look embarrassing now.

Loads of different shops as originally designed doesn't need to be the answer as it's clearly not feasible. But dressing up pretty mundane services as something else works, a bit like how Disney disguise 1 large shop as many different ones. As does window displays, sounds and lighting as opposed to the 2d cutouts and generic coaster logo graphics that we've seen used instead.
 
Shopping was clearly just seen as a more important part of theme parks in the 80s than it is now. Maybe Broome saw it as something for non-riders to do?

There wasn't really riders and non-riders back then, just guests as there was plenty to do that wasn't rides.

Again one major issue with the current park is a lack of things that are non CBeebies and not coasters. CBeebies was great at offering things that wren't rides (Mr Bloom, Ninas science lab, Charlie & Lola etc) but the rest of the park only really offers the Sea Life or this season the shows on the stage on the lawn.
 
There wasn't really riders and non-riders back then, just guests as there was plenty to do that wasn't rides.

Again one major issue with the current park is a lack of things that are non CBeebies and not coasters. CBeebies was great at offering things that wren't rides (Mr Bloom, Ninas science lab, Charlie & Lola etc) but the rest of the park only really offers the Sea Life or this season the shows on the stage on the lawn.
Indeed. Towers during the Broome era was a day out for everyone, I remember my grandparents coming with us and spending most of their day dining or exploring the garden's and grounds. Even under Tussauds with dark rides and whole family attractions it was still a day out anyone could enjoy of all ages. Being very ride centred is a very 21st century thing and I think has got to the point where it's ruining the theme and atmosphere of the place. Hopefully 2021 is the start of a reversal of this from being heavily reliant on ride hardware to a day out experience.
 
Even under Tussauds with dark rides and whole family attractions it was still a day out anyone could enjoy of all ages.

Yep my only visited as a child/teenager was in 1994 and I had no interest in Nemesis back then (it was too scary) but I remember Toyland Tours, the Music Power stage by the Towers, Peter Rabbit on Ice, the Haunted House, the Rapids and the Mine Train. It felt like there was quite a bit to do and my Mum who didn't ride many rides still could do the boat rides (Toyland and Canalboats) and watch the shows with us. Peter Rabbit was one of the highlights of the visit for our family, how many people nowadays would be able to say a show was the main attraction?

I am of course rather off-topic as Peter Rabbit and storybookland was very much a Tussauds thing not a Broome one. Just shows how much the park changed from 1989-1994. To think they added three new/rethemed attractions in 1994 (Nemesis, Toyland, Peter Rabbit)
 
Being very ride centred is a very 21st century thing and I think has got to the point where it's ruining the theme and atmosphere of the place. Hopefully 2021 is the start of a reversal of this from being heavily reliant on ride hardware to a day out experience.
Aren’t most theme parks ride centred to a degree, though? And hasn’t the park always been ride centred to an extent?

I agree that Towers could possibly use a bit more for people who don’t want to go on rides constantly, but I don’t think the park being ride-centred is necessarily a bad thing, as aren’t the rides what most people think of when they think of Alton Towers? And don’t most people go to Alton Towers to go on rides?
 
Aren’t most theme parks ride centred to a degree, though? And hasn’t the park always been ride centred to an extent?

I agree that Towers could possibly use a bit more for people who don’t want to go on rides constantly, but I don’t think the park being ride-centred is necessarily a bad thing, as aren’t the rides what most people think of when they think of Alton Towers? And don’t most people go to Alton Towers to go on rides?
That's not my point. Of course the rides will always be the main attraction, I'm on about the balance. What always made Alton Towers so special was its overall experience, the theming, the uniqueness, the setting, the garden's, the terrain, the variety, the places to eat, the shows, the entertainment.

No, people didn't just think of roller coasters when thinking about Alton Towers 20 years ago. Of course the majority of people wanted to go on the Black Hole, Nemesis and Oblivion and they were always the main draws. Now though, if the queues are big people feel their day is ruined. But queues like we've had this year used to be the norm without fast tracks and an abundance of RAP and people still had a good time. Otherwise they may as well have just thrown a load of coasters into Thorpe and be done with it.
 
And hasn’t the park always been ride centred to an extent?
Nope, as in my previous post there was plenty to do back 25 years ago that wasn't coasters at least. Yes there was a lot of rides but there was more to the park than just them.

This advert has always summed up the magic of 90s AT, it does show Nemesis but thats not the main feature. Yes the advert is for the hotel but it also makes reference to Peter Rabbit and the gardens.
 
I've got another question.
I want to know, when John Broome did actually do theming did he do it to a high standard? Now I'm not talking about themed areas here as I know they were done quite well I'm more interested in the dark rides. In particular how well themed was around the world in 80 days?
 
I've got another question.
I want to know, when John Broome did actually do theming did he do it to a high standard? Now I'm not talking about themed areas here as I know they were done quite well I'm more interested in the dark rides. In particular how well themed was around the world in 80 days?

Here are some pictures from Sally Dark Rides of Around the World in 80 Days, the theming level was pretty good. In fact I’m sure if the park installed as much physical theming in a dark ride today people would be pleased.

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Here are some pictures from Sally Dark Rides of Around the World in 80 Days, the theming level was pretty good. In fact I’m sure if the park installed as much physical theming in a dark ride today people would be pleased.

QFul7xn.jpg

MN85jvd.jpg

ngrjE4v.jpg

NNiDSKr.jpg

V9WTeYv.jpg

NSG3eqE.jpg
Thanks @AT86 ! It does appear to be quite well themed. I've only ever seen a few unclear pictures' these show it much better. I would be very pleased if the park did something similar today although I couldn't see them doing it anytime soon.
 
I've got another question.
I want to know, when John Broome did actually do theming did he do it to a high standard? Now I'm not talking about themed areas here as I know they were done quite well I'm more interested in the dark rides. In particular how well themed was around the world in 80 days?
Around the World was of a decent standard. It was very much of it's time in terms of lighting and set design but yes it was decent. I always thoroughly enjoyed it as a kid. I always liked the whole Phileas Fogg theme around the area. I can't really say anything about Doom and Sons as I can't remember if I ever did it.

You also had stuff like the waterwheel in Towers Street Restaurant which was awesome. Talbot Street itself looked good but we only went up there for Around the World in 80 Days and the Talbot Car ride thingy.

Most of the rest of the park was either unthemed or themed pretty poorly. Like the Black Hole or that Mississippi boat thing they had.
 
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