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Ride Access Pass and Disabled Access - 2024 Discussion

As most of the people in the queue (especially when including family/friends of the RAP applicant) probably don't really need a RAP - if we're totally honest with ourselves - the person in the wheelchair's need was probably 10 x greater than their's, so I wouldn't really see a big problem with that. A bit of a generalisation but I think most of us know that the RAP system is abused by many who don't actually NEED it. I'm ok with what you described above, but I suppose 'technically' the staff member did facilitate a queue jump in their favour.
 
How else do you propose wheelchair users get on rides that don't have level access? When Rita opened RAP was pretty much exclusively for wheelchair users, everyone in what is now the ambulant RAP queue would either have to buy FT or use main queue if they wanted to ride.

Twenty years ago a wheelchair user could get straight on to the rides and didn't have to contend with timeouts. Their among the biggest losers in RAP being thrown open to so many more people - if there are no RAP slots available they can't just go on a quiet day and hope for short queues, they're literally locked out.

A final thought - if the staff member at merge is marking cards correctly they'd mark the same time for both a wheelchair users as for any other RAP user, in which case there's no real benefit anyway.
 
John said:
How else do you propose wheelchair users get on rides that don't have level access? When Rita opened RAP was pretty much exclusively for wheelchair users, everyone in what is now the ambulant RAP queue would either have to buy FT or use main queue if they wanted to ride.

Twenty years ago a wheelchair user could get straight on to the rides and didn't have to contend with timeouts. Their among the biggest losers in RAP being thrown open to so many more people - if there are no RAP slots available they can't just go on a quiet day and hope for short queues, they're literally locked out.

A final thought - if the staff member at merge is marking cards correctly they'd mark the same time for both a wheelchair users as for any other RAP user, in which case there's no real benefit anyway.
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This is why I think that RAP allocations should be split into ambulant and non-ambulant. That way, those in wheelchairs would most likely be guaranteed a slot anytime.
 
Skyscraper said:
This is why I think that RAP allocations should be split into ambulant and non-ambulant. That way, those in wheelchairs would most likely be guaranteed a slot anytime.
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Double post here cos just had a thought with this. Given how simple it is to hire a wheelchair from park or externally, this would just drive those willing to make the effort to cheat the system to hire a wheelchair.

Granted they'd then have to deal with either pushing it round or getting an electric one. But majority of wheelchair users are part timers generally.
 
BarryZola said:
As most of the people in the queue (especially when including family/friends of the RAP applicant) probably don't really need a RAP - if we're totally honest with ourselves - the person in the wheelchair's need was probably 10 x greater than their's, so I wouldn't really see a big problem with that. A bit of a generalisation but I think most of us know that the RAP system is abused by many who don't actually NEED it. I'm ok with what you described above, but I suppose 'technically' the staff member did facilitate a queue jump in their favour.
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Fair enough. I was just something I hadn't seen before and so wasn't aware.
John said:
How else do you propose wheelchair users get on rides that don't have level access? When Rita opened RAP was pretty much exclusively for wheelchair users, everyone in what is now the ambulant RAP queue would either have to buy FT or use main queue if they wanted to ride.
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My post wasn't about how they got to the ride, I just wasn't aware that wheelchair users go straight on when they get to the ride (though I assume this only happens when a lift in involved).
John said:
A final thought - if the staff member at merge is marking cards correctly they'd mark the same time for both a wheelchair users as for any other RAP user, in which case there's no real benefit anyway.
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Big 'if'. We waited 20 odd minutes and then had the queue time added on (didn't notice until we had got off), so assume they did the same to everyone.
DiogoJ42 said:
The fact we now have RAP users complaining that wheelchair users get to "skip" ahead of them amuses me as much as it shocks me.
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Not complaining, just wasn't aware it happened.

Didn't realise this whould get quite the reaction, so apologies if any offence has been caused. As mentioned I hadn't seen this before so was something I wasn't aware of.
 
TPick said:
Didn't realise this whould get quite the reaction, so apologies if any offence has been caused. As mentioned I hadn't seen this before so was something I wasn't aware of.
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I don’t think you need to apologise, everyone seems to have misunderstood your post and I think some of the subsequent comments are quite frankly appalling.

RAP is for those who have difficult queuing for a variety of reasons. I imagine in many scenarios someone in a wheelchair has little problem with the waiting aspect of queuing, it’s the access point they require so prioritising them makes little sense but I appreciate it would be difficult to manage on the ride you specified. And if they were given a timeout to compensate those in the RAP line then not a major issue.

I believe some US parks have even made main queues wheelchair friendly which further reinforces the queue time is often not problematic. I think that’s another reason they started interviewing RAP users at Disney, to determine if the waiting aspect was possible.

Many RAP users would be unable to visit parks at all without the system so I find it sad that the mentality of people is to view a wheelchair as a “superior” disability. My son has no hope of an independent future and visiting theme parks is the main joy of his life but he’s not in a wheelchair so I guess he doesn’t matter.
 
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Its because when most people think of wheelchair users it creates that image of a full time user who needs as much assistance as possible.

Not helped by many online who deem it a "miracle" when they see wheelchair users get out of their chair and walk. Or when anyone under the age of 60 uses a blue badge spot gets judged for doing so.

However because the RAP system has required a split between ambulant and non-ambulant then it does create a tiered system. But that it mostly because most rides have either been retrospectively had RAP added on or had questionable design choices that has required a split off so level access is needed (and seemingly always implemented on onload side, which is an utter pain to get off of).

Only Disney have attempted fully accessible queues. And even then it's only on the brand new stuff and their recent changes (in America at least) to their system have been widely condemned. Though that's possibly in same vein that the Merlin changes have been by certain sections.

Don't think any of the comments have been particularly nasty (especially compared to other times in this particular topic), there is a strange irony of a RAP user complaining about a wheelchair user "jumping" the queue but that's the way the system is set up. Unfortunately the way in which RAP is implemented and abused within the Merlin parks will always have that impact to non-users which leads to this topic being toxic at times.
 
Bowser said:
I don’t think you need to apologise, everyone seems to have misunderstood your post and I think some of the subsequent comments are quite frankly appalling.

RAP is for those who have difficult queuing for a variety of reasons. I imagine in many scenarios someone in a wheelchair has little problem with the waiting aspect of queuing, it’s the access point they require so prioritising them makes little sense but I appreciate it would be difficult to manage on the ride you specified. And if they were given a timeout to compensate those in the RAP line then not a major issue.

I believe some US parks have even made main queues wheelchair friendly which further reinforces the queue time is often not problematic. I think that’s another reason they started interviewing RAP users at Disney, to determine if the waiting aspect was possible.

Many RAP users would be unable to visit parks at all without the system so I find it sad that the mentality of people is to view a wheelchair as a “superior” disability. My son has no hope of an independent future and visiting theme parks is the main joy of his life but he’s not in a wheelchair so I guess he doesn’t matter.
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Personally, I didn't misunderstand his post all. I was just suggesting that for every one genuine user like your son in a RAP queue at any given time, there are probably three or four people with passes behind him who don't actually NEED to use that queue but just will anyway as they found out that they technically qualify for the RAP. That's my opinion and it's informed by seeing the growth in RAP users over the last 15 years and seeing evidence of the clear abuse of the system. I'm absolutely not going to get into a back and forth about it though as neither of us can prove it either way.
 
Bowser said:
Smaller queues generally don't exist at Merlin parks so for many ambulant RAP users it's the same difference, the rides are inaccessible without it. Everyone should be treated equally with RAP.
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They can if you plan your visit correctly, and I don’t just mean going on weekdays either. On most days, there will generally be a shorter queue available somewhere.

On my recent visit to Alton Towers, which was on 26th and 27th July, I did not personally queue longer than 35 minutes for anything. Granted, I used some single rider queues, but even still, I did not memorably see an advertised queue above 45 minutes. Most major rides had a period of being on a queue of 15 minutes or less; in particular, Galactica was on 5 minutes or less both times I rode it, including in the afternoon on the Sunday. Pretty much every major ride I can think of had at least a small period where it was on an advertised queue time of under 30 minutes.

And this was a weekend in the summer holidays, so hardly an off-peak day by any stretch.

Even if I look at Alton right now, at 12:30 on a Saturday later in the holidays: while the longest queues are 60 minutes for Galactica and Smiler, Oblivion is down as low as 5 minutes and Nemesis, Sub-Terra and Toxicator are all only on 20. And that’s in Thrills; if I go over to Family, a great number of the family rides are on 20 minutes or less, including a number of 5 minute queues.

I’m not saying Merlin parks are as quiet as Paultons or that they don’t have busy days, but I feel the well-worn trope of “Merlin parks all have 60+ minute queues across the board on any day that isn’t an off-peak weekday” is vastly exaggerated. Realistically, 60+ minute queues on a large number of rides is quite a rare predicament outside of an isolated number of very busy days.
 
Bowser said:
Smaller queues generally don't exist at Merlin parks so for many ambulant RAP users it's the same difference, the rides are inaccessible without it. Everyone should be treated equally with RAP.
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Ambulant RAP users could buy (actual) Fastrack if (IF) they wanted, whereas those who need level access can't as the FT queues aren't accessible.
 
Matt N said:
They can if you plan your visit correctly, and I don’t just mean going on weekdays either. On most days, there will generally be a shorter queue available somewhere.

On my recent visit to Alton Towers, which was on 26th and 27th July, I did not personally queue longer than 35 minutes for anything. Granted, I used some single rider queues, but even still, I did not memorably see an advertised queue above 45 minutes. Most major rides had a period of being on a queue of 15 minutes or less; in particular, Galactica was on 5 minutes or less both times I rode it, including in the afternoon on the Sunday. Pretty much every major ride I can think of had at least a small period where it was on an advertised queue time of under 30 minutes.

And this was a weekend in the summer holidays, so hardly an off-peak day by any stretch.

Even if I look at Alton right now, at 12:30 on a Saturday later in the holidays: while the longest queues are 60 minutes for Galactica and Smiler, Oblivion is down as low as 5 minutes and Nemesis, Sub-Terra and Toxicator are all only on 20. And that’s in Thrills; if I go over to Family, a great number of the family rides are on 20 minutes or less, including a number of 5 minute queues.

I’m not saying Merlin parks are as quiet as Paultons or that they don’t have busy days, but I feel the well-worn trope of “Merlin parks all have 60+ minute queues across the board on any day that isn’t an off-peak weekday” is vastly exaggerated. Realistically, 60+ minute queues on a large number of rides is quite a rare predicament outside of an isolated number of very busy days.
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There's a lot to pick apart here but the main thing is you're suggesting RAP users can attend the park on a whim and gamble that there may be some tolerable queues. That's an expensive and stressful risk to take.

Many RAP users can't typically dash about a park like AT chasing favourable queue times either.

35 minutes still isn't viable for a lot of people.

I'm glad you had a good visit but i don't think that's particularly reflective of the average real life experience. Not to mention it's only AT. Chessington for example currently has 5 rides on 60+ minute queues and that's a park people can more easily manoeuvre around.

Overall i think you're missing the point of what RAP should be, a system for people who are unable to queue. That's how its users should be viewed and suggesting it can be worked around simply isn't an option for those who truly qualify.
 
Bowser said:
There's a lot to pick apart here but the main thing is you're suggesting RAP users can attend the park on a whim and gamble that there may be some tolerable queues. That's an expensive and stressful risk to take.

Many RAP users can't typically dash about a park like AT chasing favourable queue times either.

35 minutes still isn't viable for a lot of people.

I'm glad you had a good visit but i don't think that's particularly reflective of the average real life experience. Not to mention it's only AT. Chessington for example currently has 5 rides on 60+ minute queues and that's a park people can more easily manoeuvre around.

Overall i think you're missing the point of what RAP should be, a system for people who are unable to queue. That's how its users should be viewed and suggesting it can be worked around simply isn't an option for those who truly qualify.
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I’m not suggesting people visit on a whim, as I know that’s not feasible for many RAP users. I was more suggesting strategies such as looking at crowd calendars and trying to avoid the very busiest days. I know many will be unable to visit on off-peak weekdays, but some weekends and holiday days are much, much quieter than others. I’d argue my recent visit is evidence that the start of the summer holidays can actually be surprisingly quiet, so if you are trying to avoid crowds, it might be worth doing your research and going in a weekend in late July rather than, say, October half term. I’m not saying the Merlin RAP system doesn’t have flaws, but I think there are things an RAP user can do to lessen their own struggles with it, such as trying to avoid the very busiest days (as I would advise anyone to do regardless of disability status).

If you turn up on a slammed day in October half term, for example, you cannot expect a seamless experience with many, many rides. On a super peak day, there will be crowds and there will be queues; that is unavoidable to some extent.

How exactly do you feel my recent visit “isn’t particularly reflective of the average real life experience”, out of curiosity? Granted, I did use single rider queues on occasion, but I visited on a weekend in the summer holidays, which is a peak period. I also did not pay for any kind of Fastrack. I got on 28 rides across the 2 days (17 on day 1, 11 on day 2), and I should add that I got dragged out at 1:30pm on day 2!

While we’re on the subject, I should add that RAP queues appeared minimal to non-existent on my recent visit. I did not notice any kind of notable “queue” for RAP as I used to see in the past. It seemed better managed than it has been historically!

I’m not advocating for ambulant RAP to not be there by any stretch. I know how important it is to a great many people. I was purely trying to refute the suggestion that “smaller queues don’t exist in Merlin parks”, because from what I can see, that is plainly untrue regardless of what demographic you’re discussing. I do think that queue times at Alton in particular are greatly exaggerated on here at times.

I do get your point, however, that other parks are not the same as Alton. Chessington in particular does seem to acutely struggle on peak days in a way that none of the other 3 do.
 
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