• ℹ️ Heads up...

    This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.

Should front row seats be a premium add on

Ethan said:
Not sure what makes you think fast track is a disgrace it is used at all major parks across the entire globe. Heck if I was rich enough I’d buy it all the time
Click to expand...
because you are skipping the line unfairly, slowing down all of the people who are queuing fairly imagine if there was a system in the supermarkets, you can pay an extra £10 to push in front of everyone else it is just unfair and pushes up the queue times
 
Ethan said:
Not sure what makes you think fast track is a disgrace it is used at all major parks across the entire globe. Heck if I was rich enough I’d buy it all the time
Click to expand...
Not to talk on someone else’s behalf, I think this probably summarises the ‘disgrace’ comment quite succinctly.

Keep in mind that every time a bought Fast Track is used, it makes everyone else in the queue wait for one more seat to free up. The more Fast Track options, and the more uses of Fast Tracks, the more people who don’t have access have to wait.

Every single use of a Fast Track makes everyone else in that queue’s day a little bit worse.

So every purchase of a Fast Track is a conscious or unconscious decision to impact upon everyone else with the same ride intent.

And parks don’t care about that. They only care about the upsell.
 
DiogoJ42 said:
I could argue that fast track users feeling "shame" is a good thing, but that would be off topic.... ;)
Click to expand...

The only time I ever buy one is if I’m short of time and desperately want to either do a specific ride or if I’ve got one day at a park that I’m not going back to any time soon and want to make sure I get everything in.

I’ve bought one for Hyperia recently at the disgusting price of £20 for a one shot FT which was days after it had stalled and was running on one train, I’d never done it before then and wanted to make sure I got on.

The last time prior to that was Universal Hollywood in 2018 when I had one day to do everything and had fortunately for me just been paid so I got a one per ride FT.

I do agree generally they shouldn’t be a thing though.
 
Josh555 said:
The only time I ever buy one is if I’m short of time and desperately want to either do a specific ride or if I’ve got one day at a park that I’m not going back to any time soon and want to make sure I get everything in.

I’ve bought one for Hyperia recently at the disgusting price of £20 for a one shot FT which was days after it had stalled and was running on one train, I’d never done it before then and wanted to make sure I got on.

The last time prior to that was Universal Hollywood in 2018 when I had one day to do everything and had fortunately for me just been paid so I got a one per ride FT.

I do agree generally they shouldn’t be a thing though.
Click to expand...

Another reason why Efteling and Paultons are two of my favourite parks. No Fast Track and you don’t need them, that’s how parks should operate.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
You're completely right. Unfortunately not much has ever really been written up, or documented about it, so our hazy memories are all we have. I spent a good 15 minutes trying to find a BBC News report I remember seeing about it at launch, to no avail. *cough* @Squiggs *cough*
Click to expand...
Not something I know a huge amount about tbh, as slightly before my time.

As you can see in the video, the X-Sector dispenser was by the Blackhole, and I believe the Nemesis dispenser was located where the Sub-Terra games unit is today.

Not sure exactly what went on in 1998, when Oblivion was launched, but the Virtual Queue system (later also known as Dual Queue) first appeared on park maps for Oblivion and Nemesis in 1999.

In 2001 it was briefly switched from Oblivion to Submission, before the X-Sector machines were moved over to Air in 2002, located in the gazebo where the Galactica lockers are now. It was in these years it switched to being known as Dual Queue.

The old system became known as Fastrack in 2003, but I don't think the system was upgrade to be based on park tickets, rather than the turnstiles, until 2004, when The Flume and Blackhole were added as options too.

There's a lot of supposition going on there, based on the slim bits I do know, but I don't think it's far off the reality of the Free Fastrack system.
 
Last edited:
The machines would only issue a return time after you inserted your park ticket from at least 2002 onwards (maybe even before).

You could only have one active return time at once. If you tried to scan your park ticket at either the same or another ride before the previous time period had passed it printed out a message stating you needed to wait.
 
I used the VQ system, I don’t remember it being compulsory on Oblivion but I do remember using it for my first ever ride on Oblivion in 2000 so perhaps I’m wrong.

Worked quite well from what I remember , was basically the same system that Disney used to also give you for free until they started charging for it recently.
 
Towers were considering introducing a Virtual Queuing system during the pandemic, it’s why we saw an increase of entertainment, new events and more food offerings. Oktoberfest was Varney’s idea before COVID but was scaled up in it’s second season because of the change.

It’s why we saw the deals and offers phased out. Because the philosophy around the bottom-line changed. Reminded me of Wardley’s “build it and the people will come” mantra. Very much in line with shifts in the wider industry at the time when you look at the American operators.

Then the cost of living crisis hit and VAT rates rose back up to 20% for hospitality, and I assume the business proposition became unattractive.
 
I accept Fast Track far more than the concept of paying for a front row seat.

Fast Track you're still giving everyone the same ride experience, just different wait times whereas front seat you're potentially lowering the quality of the ride experience that people have already paid for via admission. At the very least it would need to be made clear that admission does not include front row seats.

There are also plenty of examples (such as those posted earlier) where Fast Track isn't the heinous beast people make it out to be. In fact i've just purchased it for our trip to Phantasialand because they don't offer RAP and we'd be otherwise unable to visit at all. Yes, a park where everyone queues the same length and the rides all have great operations is preferable but unfortunately it's also not realistic for some places
 
How on earth are you giving everyone the same experience with fasttrack?
"Here's my tenner, I'm pushing in."
You are still lowering the ride experience of everyone else, by making them wait longer for the experience...or conversely, by giving them less experiences over the day due to others pushing in.
Both are wrong, in principle and practice...
But what do you expect with £79 passes...good value?
 
It exists in every form of capitalism life.. Want posh lasagne from the supermarket? Pay more. Want a better car? Pay more. Want a better airline or cinema seat with a better viewpoint? Pay more. Nothing new with Fastpass.

The airline argument is simple - if people didn't buy First or Business seats, the cost for economy passengers would increase considerably. Same with Fastpass (to a lesser extent). Instead of charging £30 for an entry ticket and then extra for a FP, just increase the entry price and provide a better experience for all.. But then the issue is those that can't afford the posh lasagne are excluded.
 
rob666 said:
And if I buy posh lasagna, that should not reduce the ingredients of the cheap lasagna, for the less afflent...as fasttrack does.
Click to expand...
But it does! Imagine starting with the cheapest lasagne you can make, then having a better one and a best one. Everyone has lasagne, it's just that some have a better experience than others.

The alternative is to get rid of FP and add £5 to the ticket price (because not only will you lose FP revenue but also revenue from the highest spenders in the park). Back to the airline analogy, business passengers are typically paying 5-10x an economy passenger. Without them the price of an economy ticket would double.
 
Smiley said:
It exists in every form of capitalism life.. Want posh lasagne from the supermarket? Pay more. Want a better car? Pay more. Want a better airline or cinema seat with a better viewpoint? Pay more. Nothing new with Fastpass.
Click to expand...
None of these equate.

The Fastpass is customer-led scarcity creation. The lasagne and car don’t affect scarcity. The cinema and airline is corporate-led scarcity.
 
This whole discussion is flawed as theme parks are the embodiment of capitalism by their very nature.

Taking it back on topic, my point was that by making front row seats only available as a purchase, you’d be taking away something that people assumed was part of the entrance fee.

A bit like Dungeons being an upcharge, which presumably was a big reason it wasn’t very popular. People don’t want to pay to get in and then be surprised they have to pay more to access the attractions.
 
Smiley said:
The airline argument is simple - if people didn't buy First or Business seats, the cost for economy passengers would increase considerably. Same with Fastpass (to a lesser extent). Instead of charging £30 for an entry ticket and then extra for a FP, just increase the entry price and provide a better experience for all.. But then the issue is those that can't afford the posh lasagne are excluded.
Click to expand...
the fact that disney and universal have fast tracks, I would argue point against this eftling doesn't have any and are like £35 tickets.

it is primarily just an attempt to get more money nothing more than that, if universal or disney charged £5 more and had no fast tracks it would probably be much better and no one would care but probably make less money.
 
flyingguitar said:
the fact that disney and universal have fast tracks, I would argue point against this eftling doesn't have any and are like £35 tickets.

it is primarily just an attempt to get more money nothing more than that, if universal or disney charged £5 more and had no fast tracks it would probably be much better and no one would care but probably make less money.
Click to expand...
It's a capitalist business at the end of the day. Management's job is to balance the delight of their customers with the delight of shareholders - albeit to maximise returns for shareholders. It's a symbiotic relationship 😏

Disney/Universal not only make big bucks from various FP schemes, from £30 for 3+ rides to £200-£400 for a one-time for each ride - and then £500+ for VIP/front of line experiences. They also use the benefits to sell their really expensive hotels. If you get rid of these FP options, shareholders expect the money to come from somewhere else - and that's every other customer!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top