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The World of David Walliams: General Discussion

Just to play devil’s advocate, it’s worth noting that before Merlin, Fiona Eastwood worked in marketing leadership at the BBC, and in particular drove global growth and brand strategy for Doctor Who, so it’s an IP she knows better than the vast majority 😉

(Still think its’s unlikely for all the reasons cited above but, yknow, interesting fact)
 
WillPS said:
It doesn't, actually. It has variously been co-funded by Fox (US, 1996), CBC (Canada, 00s) and BBC America (US, 10s) as well as the two recent series Disney co-funded.

In each case, all rights completely excluded the UK + Ireland (at least), meaning the only relevant party to a UK theme park wishing to license would be BBC Studios. They might have to pay certain sums of money to certain writers/creators (and their estates) for certain monsters but that's all accountancy stuff and would add no complexity for the licensee.

There is precedent for such an attraction with the many exhibitions and the walk through experience which operated in Cardiff.


Cardiff's Experience handled this by using 'timeless' versions of sets and having the Doctor appear on screen. When the Doctor regenerated the new actor reshot the scenes. It wasn't always immediate either.

It isn't beyond the wit of man to strike a contract which would compel BBC Studios to provide similar updated visual assets to a licensee for the duration of a license period.

In general the Cardiff experience was probably the highest quality walkthrough visitor attraction I've done, up there with something you'd expect from Disney/Universal. Really shows what could be possible if a suitable licensee emerged. I am really not convinced Merlin is that licensee though.
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There are ways to get a singular attraction to work and be updated, but the discussion was about theming an entire outdoor area, which is a much more difficult proposition.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
The features which make Doctor Who the longest running sci-fi programme are also, unfortunately, the features which make it very difficult and potentially costly to bring to a theme park.

The Doctor has no fixed or definitive appearance, due to regeneration. This means that if you pick a singular Doctor for your theme, it can become very dated.

If you were to go with whomever is playing the Doctor, there's an expectation that you would need to refresh it every five or so years when there's a new lead actor. Giving attractions a new overlay each time. This is expensive.

If you were to pick a legacy Doctor, you risk alienating newer and younger fans who don't have an affinity with your choice, in addition to the potential to look as though the attraction is dated from the off.

The Doctor is a Time Lord who can travel anywhere in space and time. Where and when do you set the area? There is no definitive or classic set for you to build around. There's no base.

The only constants within the series are the recurring monsters, as even the interior of the TARDIS changed frequently. Aside from your Daleks and Cybermen, which other creatures could you use? The Weeping Angels are probably the only other recognisable and long lasting foe from New Who, which admittedly are easy enough to do, but are arguably similar to other themes within the park already.

Then there is the small matter of the rights themselves. Whilst the BBC owns the show, the rights to the Daleks are actually owned by the estate of Terry Nation, who are notoriously fierce negotiators. You then have the added complication of the current series being produced by Bad Wolf, and internationally distributed by Disney, which adds more negotiating partners for a series which wasn't well received.

Finally, the BBC has tried this before. The Doctor Who Experience in Cardiff required constant investment to keep up with the current Doctor and eventually closed because the numbers didn't stack up. Time Fracture in London was also a commercial failure.

Merlin like safe bets. A high concept sci-fi area that requires a retheme every four / five years and involves negotiating with the BBC, Bad Wolf, Disney (for the last two seasons), and the Terry Nation estate is the opposite of a safe bet. It is a wibbly wobbly, time wimey headache.
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On a similar note, ‘LEGO Ninjago The Ride’ at LEGOLAND has this same issue, the Ninjago series has massively developed since the first Ninjago ride opened in 2016, to the point where the ride is essentially out of sync with the current state of the series. Maybe one day they might update the ride game engine to include the newer characters but I doubt they would actually do it.
 
GooseOnTheLoose said:
There are ways to get a singular attraction to work and be updated, but the discussion was about theming an entire outdoor area, which is a much more difficult proposition.
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This would be more uncharted territory but I don't agree this is an element of the programme which ever changes much. The Tardis exterior is unchanged. The places it arrives in are most typically streets in a metropolitan British setting or something resembling a quarry/generic dystopian setting.

The franchise also spent a good deal of time tied up with a secretive military organisation, which is pretty solid theming territory for Alton Towers (although would be a bit samey!).

If you wanted to lean on the heritage the exterior environment could resemble Totter's Lane.
 
WillPS said:
This would be more uncharted territory but I don't agree this is an element of the programme which ever changes much. The Tardis exterior is unchanged. The places it arrives in are most typically streets in a metropolitan British setting or something resembling a quarry/generic dystopian setting.

The franchise also spent a good deal of time tied up with a secretive military organisation, which is pretty solid theming territory for Alton Towers (although would be a bit samey!).

If you wanted to lean on the heritage the exterior environment could resemble Totter's Lane.
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At that point, you could use any generic IP and save yourself the licensing fee.

If the creative vision for a multi million pound investment is "let's build a set that looks like a quarry or a generic British street," Alton Towers can achieve that by simply pointing guests towards the car parks, Forbidden Valley or X Sector. They don't need to pay the BBC for the privilege. You've already pointed out the similarities between UNIT and The Phalanx, which would render that choice paying for the brand name on a product you already manufacture yourself.

Doctor Who's USP and storytelling masterstroke is that adventures takes place all over space and time. Each story is somewhere new, somewhere unseen, often with a reset, full of mystery and wonder. It is untethered.

If you anchor it to a single static location like Totter's Lane, you strip away the very thing that makes Who, Who. You are paying premium rates for a limitless concept, only to shoehorn it into a limited box.
 
I don't have much to add, but I think a Doctor Who area is pretty simple to achieve. I would go down the Gallifrey route and have 'portals' that take you to different times/places (rides/attractions). A monsters themed ride would be a no-brainer and never need updating. A Doctor-specific ride is a bit trickier but not impossible. Have a pre-show/a few videos/screens with the current Doctor Who that can be updated every few years, have all the physical/permanent theming as the monsters/land/wherever we're going.

The Doctor Who Experience in Cardiff Bay effectively worked this way when it switched from Matt Smith to Peter Capaldi. The videos were updated, and the majority of physical theming remained. They did go a bit extra with a different story and some new theming/interactive elements. However, this didn't necessarily need to be done.

I think realistically, the nearest we will get to a Doctor Who ride will be in the form of CBeebies Land with the animated show in development. Personally, I would not trust Merlin at all to execute a live-action themed Doctor Who land/ride/area. If Universal GB were interested, however...

Anyway, before the mods come telling us all off *ahem*. The controversy surrounding Walliams, I don't feel, has much of an impact on this area being removed/rethemed. TWODW has always felt empty, a cheap overlay as a stopgap before they can do something more interesting. The newest allegations against Walliams may quicken up the disappearance of the area/theme, but I think the area has been leading this way regardless.

I can't remember who mentioned it, but moving the flats to Fountain Square, Driving School access next to Hex and then closing that entire corner of the park is a pretty good idea. Assuming Gansta Granny will likely become SBNO in 2026, I don't see the need for an already dead area to stay open and become even more dead. Block it off, demolish the lot and start over with PH as the centrepiece.
 
Doctor who as an IP is having a massive identify crisis and it’s well beyond its peak in its current iteration.

Disney have abandoned it and whilst the BBC haven’t as of yet and they’ve said they’re ‘committed’ to it I genuinely don’t think they know what to do with it. It’s also had its own issues with people saying it’s too ‘woke’, political and whatever else. Not a brand I’d hitch myself to if I’m being honest at this moment in time.
 
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The obvious answer with Dr Who, as it is time travel based, is that you make it backwards facing traveling through time to Drs of the past. It's universal enough that most people will be able to take something from it, and if it's good enough as a ride the recognition of the IP can be secondary in any case. At the most you need a regeneration clip of the latest Dr who can then regenerate to be you the rider.

Not that I think it's the right time for this IP to be used. Actually, history tells us it not being the right time for an IP could make it a Merlin prime target! 😂
 
The way round the whole regeneration thing would be for any dark ride would be that the rider(s) are playing the role of The Doctor and them having the interactive device being a sonic screwdriver. Get a few different companions that span old and nuWho to do videos and fill the ride with classic Who villains.

The Weaping Angels would be the perfect animatronic ever for a Merlin park seeing how they don't move when people are looking at them.
 
Thing is Merlin will still use original concepts. For example Toxicator this year was original, as was Hyperia and Nemesis Reborn the past 2 years. So maybe some original themes is set to be used for World of David Walliams.
 
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GooseOnTheLoose said:
At that point, you could use any generic IP and save yourself the licensing fee.

If the creative vision for a multi million pound investment is "let's build a set that looks like a quarry or a generic British street," Alton Towers can achieve that by simply pointing guests towards the car parks, Forbidden Valley or X Sector. They don't need to pay the BBC for the privilege. You've already pointed out the similarities between UNIT and The Phalanx, which would render that choice paying for the brand name on a product you already manufacture yourself.

Doctor Who's USP and storytelling masterstroke is that adventures takes place all over space and time. Each story is somewhere new, somewhere unseen, often with a reset, full of mystery and wonder. It is untethered.

If you anchor it to a single static location like Totter's Lane, you strip away the very thing that makes Who, Who. You are paying premium rates for a limitless concept, only to shoehorn it into a limited box.
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You seem to be responding as though I'm proposing or even in favour of such a development, which I find puzzling given I've made quite plain that I am not; stating both that I don't think Merlin would pull it off successfully and that I would prefer the license fee investment to go towards a better hard deliverable. Let me restate this for the record - I don't think it's a good idea for Alton Towers as the organisation presently stands to try and pull off a 'grown up' IP. It'd end up being at best subpar, likely lasting a few years and then being closed or stripped of IP.

What I am saying is a Doctor Who themed area in a theme park absolutely could be done and be done well, despite the challenges the format presents, and some of those problems have already been solved. Understanding the franchise is pretty key and part of that would be recognising that, despite the Tardis' ability to go anywhere*, the travellers do in fact spend quite a lot of time in London, Cardiff and other earthly locations.

(*except when it can't go anywhere, and accepting that sometimes it is not very well controlled)

I'd also add that David Tennant is now seemingly a permanent version of the Doctor so if it needed to be given just one face/voice then it'd make sense if it was his.

A well dressed 1960s London street full of references to in-show lore leading to attractions which represent being taken off to faraway destinations and baddies sounds pretty authentic and cool to me. But to reiterate again for certainty - I don't want to see this on Cred Street. I would *love* to see Universal have a go at it.

What I would like is something bright, zaney/whacky and full of fantasy. Actually another crack at Cloud Cuckoo Land wouldn't be that terrible a thing, but this time properly utilising the boat ride and Project Horizon, with filler attractions wearing the same theme. Or something along the lines of Ug Land, there was definitely way more that could have been done with that theme.
 
WillPS said:
You seem to be responding as though I'm proposing or even in favour of such a development, which I find puzzling given I've made quite plain that I am not; stating both that I don't think Merlin would pull it off successfully and that I would prefer the license fee investment to go towards a better hard deliverable. Let me restate this for the record - I don't think it's a good idea for Alton Towers as the organisation presently stands to try and pull off a 'grown up' IP. It'd end up being at best subpar, likely lasting a few years and then being closed or stripped of IP.

What I am saying is a Doctor Who themed area in a theme park absolutely could be done and be done well, despite the challenges the format presents, and some of those problems have already been solved. Understanding the franchise is pretty key and part of that would be recognising that, despite the Tardis' ability to go anywhere*, the travellers do in fact spend quite a lot of time in London, Cardiff and other earthly locations.

(*except when it can't go anywhere, and accepting that sometimes it is not very well controlled)

I'd also add that David Tennant is now seemingly a permanent version of the Doctor so if it needed to be given just one face/voice then it'd make sense if it was his.

A well dressed 1960s London street full of references to in-show lore leading to attractions which represent being taken off to faraway destinations and baddies sounds pretty authentic and cool to me. But to reiterate again for certainty - I don't want to see this on Cred Street. I would *love* to see Universal have a go at it.

What I would like is something bright, zaney/whacky and full of fantasy. Actually another crack at Cloud Cuckoo Land wouldn't be that terrible a thing, but this time properly utilising the boat ride and Project Horizon, with filler attractions wearing the same theme. Or something along the lines of Ug Land, there was definitely way more that could have been done with that theme.
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I agree with what you’re saying but RTD (Russell T Davies) didn’t even understand the show anymore and he’s basically the show runner, the guy who’s in charge writing the scripts and has done this 2.0 reboot. His first reboot in 2005 ish was great, we all remember that. This new reboot not so much and he’s kinda tarnished not just the IP but his own reputation.

Until there’s someone sensible at the helm who could be the middleman between the series/themepark I don’t see how it’s feasible. It’s a convoluted IP and its reputation quite frankly is in the gutter, it’s not something the old nor young think about as a popular IP. For now anyway.

It genuinely wouldn’t surprise me if it goes on another long term break within the next couple of years anyway.
 
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