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2018: Wicker Man - General Discussion - SPOILERS! - Part One

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John said:
Wasn't N:ST entirely the responsibility of ents at one point?

That didn't work out too well.
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For rather different reasons.

People always forget Ents deliver the Scare Mazes too.

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rob666 said:
...or make Postman Pat stoke the fire, fan the flames and waft the smoke, while the cabaret singer supervises while singing the songs from the original film.
Multi tasking at its best.
The ride is sited in a bit of a Green Dale after all.
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What role does the magician have? Or is she already doubling up as the cabaret singer?
 
Some photos of the effects from the MAP FB group:

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I think while Ents running this ride is a different attempt at ensuring a standard I still have reservations; running a ride for 7/8 months of the year for a full operating day is different to a scare maze for a few hours for 2 weeks. Also a scare maze is a fixed budget and built, this is going to be something completely new for them.
I know its a different beast but Sub:Terra is still to close to memory and the only comparison available.

I fully expect by next season there will have been a look at budget and someone wondering why Ents look after a ride and it will fall back to the limited Tech team.


Prove me wrong kids, prove me wrong.
 
Rob said:
Well Ents and Tech Services have both faced large cuts (hence less entertainment on park and more ride breakdowns). You'd like to think that if Towers want to maintain Wicker Man well they will ensure they have enough skilled resources on hand to do so.

:)
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It sounds great in theory but two issues raise an eyebrow for me:
  1. What's stopping Ents from managing all the effects on other rides, as of now if this is the way forward?
  2. Ents aren't staff aren't around for very long, they change too much year to year so I can't see this lasting.
 
If anyone is interested, Backseat Blackout has posted a video about John Wardley's response which also contains 3 questions at the end:

If you don't wish to watch the video, John has basically said that the ride is fast, but that we should not expect a lot of airtime because the ride has a twister layout and that is its main advantage.
 
Rick said:
Right, but this is different than if I buy a beef burger from Tesco and it turns out to be horse - that's blatantly wrong - this is different. If someone goes to Alton and rides Wicker Man, thinks it's wicked (man) and then on the way home they spy this thread and realise there's another wooden coaster that they'll never ride with a fireball incorporated into it - that makes the ride worse? I don't get it.

Presumably you object to Disney calling Disneyland 'The Happiest Place on Earth' because it might be not be for every single person?
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I haven't said that the ride would be worse for that person if they saw this thread or if they realise that there is another ride that has this. The ride quality and if that person likes it or not is completely irrelevant.

However the claims that Alton have said about this ride could (note how I said could) have made that person want to visit in the first place. To then pay to get in and ride it, whereas if they hadn't been sold that false image they may not have bothered visiting. That's false advertising. Clear and simple.

Ask yourself a question Rick. Is it, or is it not false advertising if Alton claim that the ride is something that it's not? Is it misleading advertising if they state that the ride is something that it's not?

Personally I don't care because I am not suckered in by advertising, however like it or not, there are rules that have to be followed when advertising a product or service and anyone has a right to raise the issue with the ASA.

It's all hear say anyway if they have been in touch with Alton, but personally I hope they have.

I will reiterate my view that no company should mislead anyone when it comes to advertising (or indeed any other matter). That is why the ASA is there and why they encourage people to raise concerns.
 
PeteA said:
I haven't said that the ride would be worse for that person if they saw this thread or if they realise that there is another ride that has this. The ride quality and if that person likes it or not is completely irrelevant.

However the claims that Alton have said about this ride could (note how I said could) have made that person want to visit in the first place. To then pay to get in and ride it, whereas if they hadn't been sold that false image they may not have bothered visiting. That's false advertising. Clear and simple.

Ask yourself a question Rick. Is it, or is it not false advertising if Alton claim that the ride is something that it's not? Is it misleading advertising if they state that the ride is something that it's not?

Personally I don't care because I am not suckered in by advertising, however like it or not, there are rules that have to be followed when advertising a product or service and anyone has a right to raise the issue with the ASA.

It's all hear say anyway if they have been in touch with Alton, but personally I hope they have.

I will reiterate my view that no company should mislead anyone when it comes to advertising (or indeed any other matter). That is why the ASA is there and why they encourage people to raise concerns.
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I’m making no point on the rights or wrongs of the marketing or the role of the ASA.

Just stating that the ASA had no role in pulling that particular text from the marketing campaign. Merlin HQ did.

PeteB said:
It sounds great in theory but two issues raise an eyebrow for me:
  1. What's stopping Ents from managing all the effects on other rides, as of now if this is the way forward?
  2. Ents aren't staff aren't around for very long, they change too much year to year so I can't see this lasting.
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Ents tech management has been pretty stable for a couple of years and I think Ents would love to get their hands on other rides. I suspect this is their chance to prove they should get the staff and budget to do so.
 
The only way to properly maintain a rides show elements is to have a dedicated team. You wouldn’t want an electrician to replace running wheels or a mechanic to re-wire the sensors. These jobs have dedicated teams within Tech Services so why not have a team for show elements (Audio, Visial and Animation)?

Ents have the knowledge to form such a team. They’d also do a much better job than anyone from rides maintenance because the emphasis would be on enhancing the experience, not just keeping it running. However once a dedicated ride show team is formed from Ents I think long term they’d need to become a part of Tech Services in order to secure a maintenance budget that can’t be cut quite so easily.

Legoland have such a team, but it mainly serves to keep Miniland running.
 
The issue is that Technical Services staff aren't required, nor trained, to deal with even basic AV issues or maintenance.

Their remit lies with ensuring the effects are safe, not necessarily working.

:)
 
A tricky one, because I'm also so exasperated when people online seem to baselessly slag off stuff that they probably don't even care about or have anything to do with. It's unhelpful and also debases any genuine criticism.

Big difference between constructive criticism (even if passionate) and just cynicism.

Rick said:
My beef is with whiny enthusiasts who I am not a fan of (see almost every other topic I have posted in).
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But if Alton Towers do view fans who have criticism as just "a bunch of babies with too much time on their hands" then that's just vitriolic and counter productive. So hopefully they don't take the 'worlds first' backlash to mean that.

Pointing out the false claim was pedantic, yes, but doesnt hurt Towers' chances or take away anything from the ride. If the merit of the coaster is good when it opens, then they deserve a good response!

matthewgcole said:
I love the phrase "wheeled out". It conjures up visions of JW being pushed out by a UPS man on a set of sack trucks, almost silence of the lambs style to say "I have no objections to this ride existing".
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Lol thats why I love this turn of phrase, and this image has just improved it.

Interesting what he says but enthusiasts' enjoyment of the ride should absolutely not be swayed by whatever JW thinks, whether good or bad. Just think for y o u r s e l f
 
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WickerManiac said:
The issue is that Technical Services staff aren't required, nor trained, to deal with even basic AV issues or maintenance.

Their remit lies with ensuring the effects are safe, not necessarily working.

:)
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I thought tech services would of been a cross site department with staff that have a specialist skills.

I work in an estates department. And we have general maintenance duties and have specialist skills. Like electrician, jointer, engineer, welder, locksmith, plumber.

So having cross site skill sets are not that hard if the job description and skill sets for each post are correct.

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WickerManiac said:
nor trained, to deal with even basic AV issues or maintenance.
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Unfortunately, neither are the ents team judging by their choices of kit and setup over things like Scarefest and Fireworks.

That's my professional opinion.

The park could really do with some properly trained and experienced AV Technicians like they used to have back in the 90's, when all shows had to run to perfection.
 
@PeteA - i don't disagree with a lot of what you say, but you have to be consistent in your outrage. The industry has been full of dubious claims for decades - why are we drawing the line here, particularly for such an ill defined claim. It is doing something fairly different that what we haven't seen prior. They could argue this is the first fusion of wood and fire, the others were just playing at it. Just like they argued Oblivion had a vertical drop - did you say that in your book? (a question - not an accusation).

TakeYourMedicine said:
But if Alton Towers do view fans who have criticism as just "a bunch of babies with too much time on their hands" then that's just vitriolic and counter productive. So hopefully they don't take the 'worlds first' backlash to mean that.
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I think they understand their passion for the park but are cognizant of the fact that their passion often does translate into hate or cynicism, creating a scenario whereby they are almost doomed to fail if they set out to meet their desires and expectations.

They are also very aware that this community is an extremely small part of their market and it has vastly different views and acceptance criteria that often involves vast amounts of nostalgia and intercontinental comparisons. It has to be regarded with that in mind.

Press event is set for 16th March.
 
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