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2018: Wicker Man - General Discussion - SPOILERS! - Part One

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It's impressive how a new rollercoaster at Alton Towers, a long awaited wooden coaster no less, has so far turned out to be so uninteresting.

It's not that I think it will be no good, it's just utterly failing to capture my imagination like Thirteen, The Smiler, and even Sub Terra did. Thanks, Merlin.
 
Th13teen was indeed massively miss-marketed and ridiculously overhyped. They firmly advertised it as a white knuckle thrill ride (you can't argue with that because it's a fact) and yet the ride designers themselves, including John Wardley, have openly stated that it is a family ride intended for everyone, which small children to grandparents could enjoy.

And for the record, I too love Th13teen.

James said:
I'm on the fence with this development so far. I like Th13teen's drop and theming (aside from the exposed corrugated metal at the back), although the outdoor layout is short and it was marketed wrongly. I like The Smiler's layout and design and the concept of the theme, however the poor attempts at theming and dire station building and depressing concrete pit let it down.

Third time lucky? Maybe they've taken notes from the past SW's? Or more likely it will be another ride that does one thing well, then does a lot bad.
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Totally agree on points about Th13teen and The Smiler.

Third time lucky with SW8? I doubt it, especially since John has had his nose pushed out. The one project he's been trying to build at Towers for 25+ years and they wait until he retires to build it. Not only that, but I'm sure he made himself available to Towers if they wanted his assistance on future projects, and despite that they've literally given him 2 fingers.

Merlin don't have the right people working on this, it'll be another half arsed job like all their other projects.
 
PeteB said:
I'm sure he made himself available to Towers if they wanted his assistance on future projects, and despite that they've literally given him 2 fingers.
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Do you happen to know that, or are you just presuming? Seems an abrupt thing to think given his continual involvement with prior SW's even after he already "retired."
 
I'm sure he said about a year ago that he had retired and wont have an active role in new projects, but if towers (or anyone else) approached him he wouldn't say no.

Either way, there are lots of people out there just as able to create a good coaster, merlin just aren't looking for them. The focus on new coasters is not theme or ride quality, its marketing, and wardley wouldn't put that first.
 
Leah said:
I'm sure he said about a year ago that he had retired and wont have an active role in new projects, but if towers (or anyone else) approached him he wouldn't say no.

Either way, there are lots of people out there just as able to create a good coaster, merlin just aren't looking for them. The focus on new coasters is not theme or ride quality, its marketing, and wardley wouldn't put that first.
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That does ring a bell, but for all we know they may have approached him and he declined. And I think it's a bit presumptious to imply that Merlin aren't interested in building a good quality coaster. Marketing sells the coaster, and we all know Merlin are very sales driven, but I'm pretty sure they're aware the coaster needs to be of a certain standard. And considering we don't know who the main person behind this ride is, we can't really say whether Merlin have or haven't hired someone interested in making a good coaster. Plus Wardley was more than happy to throw about MOJ/marmalisation marketing jargon when being interviewed about The Smiler back in 2013.

And before someone mentions the poor quality of The Smiler build, I think most of us would still consider that a good quality coaster, in terms of its layout at the very least. Add in The Swarm, and for the family market Th13teen, I think it's fair to say Merlin can deliver good coasters, in spite of how marketing driven they are.
 
Mr wardley has worked with the merlin creative team for a few years. And he was very positive about them, so you never know good fresh talent that worked with one of the worlds great ride designer may surprise us with a great coaster.
 
Rollercoasters are designed all around the world without John Wardley's involvement. Yes Wardley has done good things at Towers in the past but let's not pretend he is the be all and end of rollercoaster design. GCI have proven time and time again that they can produce good coasters.

I think this project is more limited by budget and site constraints than it is by who actually designed the coaster.

:)
 
Alastair said:
Do you happen to know that, or are you just presuming? Seems an abrupt thing to think given his continual involvement with prior SW's even after he already "retired."
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Somebody posted this back in May this year:

I emailed John Wardley about this, and this is his reply:

"I have no involvement with the current Alton Towers project, so I can neither confirm nor deny whether the ride you mention is a woodie.. If, as you say, the plans for the new ride are a woodie, then it looks as if my long-held ambition to create a woodie at Alton Towers have been thwarted! If Alton Towers wanted any assistance from me, then I'd be more than happy to be involved, but otherwise I'm sure the project is in very capable hands."
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I know there are many good ride designers in the world. My point is I find it extremely disrespectful of both Merlin and Towers. But that's just them all over.

Team Edit Unecessary swearing removed
PeteB Edit Grab another tissue
 
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Towers want a woodie, probably just as much as Wardley did. What were they supposed to do, not build one to respect his memory? That seems pointlessly sentimental if you ask me. And that e-mail response is clearly tongue firmly in cheek.

The cross valley woodie Wardley wanted didn't work. That's not Towers fault, it's just how circumstances worked out. His legacy is represented pretty well I'd say by the likes of Nemesis, so he's hardly being disrespected when four of his creations are still operational at the park.

Plus Wardley is still seen at Towers fairly frequently (just recently he was spotted at the Rollercoaster Restaurant) so I doubt he's mortally offended.
 
I think what he said about his ambitions being thwarted was all a light hearted joke. At the end of the day he's either going to be involved or he isn't. If the coasters rubbish I'm sure we will be coming back to discuss more about him nearer the time!

Apart from a launch does anyone have any ideas as to what elements it could include? Airtime please
 
andeyhart said:
Towers want a woodie, probably just as much as Wardley did. What were they supposed to do, not build one to respect his memory? That seems pointlessly sentimental if you ask me. And that e-mail response is clearly tongue firmly in cheek.

The cross valley woodie Wardley wanted didn't work. That's not Towers fault, it's just how circumstances worked out. His legacy is represented pretty well I'd say by the likes of Nemesis, so he's hardly being disrespected when four of his creations are still operational at the park.

Plus Wardley is still seen at Towers fairly frequently (just recently he was spotted at the Rollercoaster Restaurant) so I doubt he's mortally offended.
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Apparently the cross valley woodie was only 1 of several different designs and locations over the years. He'd said in a talk at Oakwood that he'd designed lots of wooden coasters for Towers.
 
I'm sure there were many, many plans for wooden coaster at Towers over the years, not just the cross valley that we know about!

It would have been nice to see John have worked on a woodie project, and would have fitted in more nicely as his swansong. However I'm not too bothered about who designs it, and more bothered about the package as a whole, we need a well themed and coherent attraction.
 
Thing is this is a GCI wooden coaster which usually cost $7 million which equivalents to £5.5 million pounds, even the ride budget is £15 million so I think Towers have definitely got something really nice up their sleeve whether it be some World's First or something else, I'm excited to find out. Also with the detail of Galactica, Altonville Mine Tours and House of Monsters, SW8 will be an excellent themed ride. My only concerns with the ride are can they get it open on time and how the ride is marketed.

Also if the ride has something to do with 'burning' this wooden man maybe that doesn't eliminate SW8 not being a water ride?
 
Ultimately this is not, in my opinion, the best site in the park for a wooden coaster. A lot more could have been done elsewhere and unless lots of expensive digging was involved I doubt even Wardley would be able to create anything much better than what we are getting.

:)
 
The version i hear was. Wardley decided to take a less active roll in the team as it came up to his retirement.
Did he have a hand in this before he retired. I don't know. However it will be interesting to see what SW8 is like when it opens
 
I believe they ask him for his input/thoughts, and they still get him to talk to the media but other than that he has retired. If the original SW8 had been built the blade would have gone before ripsaw, as the station area was around where the blade is, and we were expecting that to be gone at the start of 2015. The thing that's made the new plans seem worse is what could've been if it wasn't for a bad year and cuts.
Whether they changed the plans at the start of the 2015 season or middle I don't know, but the markings in that area created so much excitement, and it would have gone round blade, nemesis, sub terra and the food stands.
 
Rob said:
Rollercoasters are designed all around the world without John Wardley's involvement. Yes Wardley has done good things at Towers in the past but let's not pretend he is the be all and end of rollercoaster design. GCI have proven time and time again that they can produce good coasters.

I think this project is more limited by budget and site constraints than it is by who actually designed the coaster.

:)
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Couldn't agree more, mourn your loss then move on.
 
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