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2018: Wicker Man - General Discussion - SPOILERS! - Part One
- Thread starter ThemeParkCrafter
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jmc
TS Member
If I've worked it out correctly looking at the demolition information they dont appear to be demolishing the flumes station trough or station structure. The coaster track seems to go around the flume station site. It says there will be a thematic structure in the exact location of The Flume station with the same size and shape. Perhaps they are going to use the structure for some purpose..?
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cactuselves
TS Member
Well, that's the top of the lift hill, and it is sat on the highest point of the site, so that's a good use of space to me? If the site was flat, the ride could do something else in this area potentially, but it isn't. Nemesis and Air are similar to this in terms of lift hill layout. Most of the rest of the site for this has either theming, building or coaster on it. To make this substantially longer they would have had to go over the rapids / katanga lake area, which may have needed additional lift hill or launch (higher lift hill would probably make planning less likely as it would be above canopy height.)
Sm1lingAdvocate
TS Member
For me, I think the disappointment lies in the fact before the smiler accident, we were looking at getting a world class launched wooden coaster launching off the blades site, around nemesis' old extended queue, by the back of sub terra and more. From what I've heard this could have got permission, but was dropped due to excessive cost in rock removal and more.
The thing is, it looked like we could have been getting a world class, thrilling wooden coaster, and costs were cut leading to what looks like a reasonably good family coaster. It all lies in the point that we were close to getting a fantastic, world class ride, and we get stuck with what will most likely be towers only woodie, and the potential of what could've been is gone.
Normally this would have been amazing news, but after the original plans, it seems a bit meh.
The thing is, it looked like we could have been getting a world class, thrilling wooden coaster, and costs were cut leading to what looks like a reasonably good family coaster. It all lies in the point that we were close to getting a fantastic, world class ride, and we get stuck with what will most likely be towers only woodie, and the potential of what could've been is gone.
Normally this would have been amazing news, but after the original plans, it seems a bit meh.
Matt.GC
TS Member
Correct. No better time to build one whilst morons who think Galactica stopping on the lift hill is akin to a near death experience will be visiting the park anyway. I would strongly suspect that the "market research" that suggested people didn't trust wooden coasters never gets mentioned again.
Out of curiosity what are other CGI's like for vibrating? This coaster will be very close to Sealife and I believe fish don't really like loud noises/vibrations. If there was a risk of stressing the fish then no doubt the zoo licensing people would have something to say. Would be a shame if one of the better non-ride attractions was sacrificed for a coaster that looks like it could have been built anywhere else on park.
U
UserDeleted
I don't know why but I'm still expecting the plans to change which they really won't.
The Nickelodeon Streak looks more thrilling than this... Wasn't that built in the 30's?
I'm trying to hold back from bashing it... I hated Thirteen first time I rode it. 1. Because I queued so long in the first week it opened and 2. Because it just wasn't long enough. And 3. It wasn't what I was expecting the ride to be.
Now I love Thirteen because I know it's a family thrill.
Will this ride be different because I know this from the get go? I'm not sure... Like a lot of people I just feel a bit let down and it's hard to get excited about something thats going to take quite a while to build, but isn't going to be a grand spectacle anyway.
In closing.... Isn't that one of the factors that gets things Green Lit with Varney??? It has to look impressive?... Something is hidden.
The Nickelodeon Streak looks more thrilling than this... Wasn't that built in the 30's?
I'm trying to hold back from bashing it... I hated Thirteen first time I rode it. 1. Because I queued so long in the first week it opened and 2. Because it just wasn't long enough. And 3. It wasn't what I was expecting the ride to be.
Now I love Thirteen because I know it's a family thrill.
Will this ride be different because I know this from the get go? I'm not sure... Like a lot of people I just feel a bit let down and it's hard to get excited about something thats going to take quite a while to build, but isn't going to be a grand spectacle anyway.
In closing.... Isn't that one of the factors that gets things Green Lit with Varney??? It has to look impressive?... Something is hidden.
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Rob
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Have you ridden a GCI woodie? Even the smaller ones are very good fun. It will be better than Nickelodeon Streak.
(I'm not totally happy with the plans myself but will post my full thoughts later once I've had a better look through them).
U
UserDeleted
Yes I have and the two I have ridden were amazing. 1 of the best wooden coasters I've been on, unless this has a launch I can't see how it can be thrilling.
Rick
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Crux
I’ll be honest, I am still a little shocked we’re seeing a traditional wooden coaster rather than a prefab. The plans look very interesting, I think this will be a solid ride – I imagine it might a bit more ‘fun’ than ‘thrill’ but I don’t think that’s a bad thing when you look at the bulk of the smaller GCIs.
They have built some tremendous rides in the past and on the whole they have worn pretty well over the years save for Gwazi and anything else they built with PTCs.
I am not completely convinced that is an inversion, unless it’s prolonged as per the RMC I-box rides, there doesn’t appear to be great deal of lateral movement in the photo, nor a ton of clearance ‘underneath’, nor a high railing as you see on most GCI rides. Perhaps its meant to be misleading.
They have built some tremendous rides in the past and on the whole they have worn pretty well over the years save for Gwazi and anything else they built with PTCs.
I am not completely convinced that is an inversion, unless it’s prolonged as per the RMC I-box rides, there doesn’t appear to be great deal of lateral movement in the photo, nor a ton of clearance ‘underneath’, nor a high railing as you see on most GCI rides. Perhaps its meant to be misleading.
Sazzle
TS Administrator
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- Steel Vengeance
Mixed reactions indeed! Interesting to see.
Whilst I had hoped for a longer ride, I understand there has to be a compromise. The park are looking at reduced visitor numbers and desperately need to replenish their family offering. Throwing in a beastly high thrill woodie wouldn't do anybody any favours at the moment I'm sure.
A family thrill that's of acceptable length and packs a punch, much like White Lightning at FunSpot in Orlando, will serve the park better long-term than a 1.4m "DADDY IT LOOKS TOO SCARY" £20m+ installation.
I have to say, the support structure lends to an inversion and the enclosed drop could well mean we see some effort to theming. A possible launched lift? I'd like to see it!
You don't have to have a huge lift to create speed and forces - Nemesis has a tiny first drop (if you can call it that) but the difference in high point and low point are what make the ride. I can see this picking up speed continually, and it's not likely to have trims (I hope!).
I'm pleased with the plans, and if it's 1.1m or 1.2m, that's a much needed boost to the families with kids who are bored of CBeebies Land but can't get on Oblivion and Nemesis.
GCI are known for pulling decent coasters out of their hats... I hope they get a chance to prove how good they can be with a more compact layout.
My next hope is for the CATCF building & area to see a fun new semi-thrill water ride of some description!
Whilst I had hoped for a longer ride, I understand there has to be a compromise. The park are looking at reduced visitor numbers and desperately need to replenish their family offering. Throwing in a beastly high thrill woodie wouldn't do anybody any favours at the moment I'm sure.
A family thrill that's of acceptable length and packs a punch, much like White Lightning at FunSpot in Orlando, will serve the park better long-term than a 1.4m "DADDY IT LOOKS TOO SCARY" £20m+ installation.
I have to say, the support structure lends to an inversion and the enclosed drop could well mean we see some effort to theming. A possible launched lift? I'd like to see it!
You don't have to have a huge lift to create speed and forces - Nemesis has a tiny first drop (if you can call it that) but the difference in high point and low point are what make the ride. I can see this picking up speed continually, and it's not likely to have trims (I hope!).
I'm pleased with the plans, and if it's 1.1m or 1.2m, that's a much needed boost to the families with kids who are bored of CBeebies Land but can't get on Oblivion and Nemesis.
GCI are known for pulling decent coasters out of their hats... I hope they get a chance to prove how good they can be with a more compact layout.
My next hope is for the CATCF building & area to see a fun new semi-thrill water ride of some description!
Spike
TS Contributor
- Favourite Ride
- Taron
Wow, there's just no pleasing some people is there?
Has anyone even thought about the public's reaction to them installing a valley crossing RMC with a ton of inversions so soon after The Smiler incident? We are all to aware of inverting woodies as we're 'in the know' but how many of the general public in the UK or even Europe are aware a woodie can invert? If alton were all of a sudden to announce an inverting wooden coaster, do you think it would be well received? The public have already stated their concerns over safety through countless polls over the years, do you think they'll get on board with one that inverts?
We've also just had an £18million high thrill coaster, how greedy are you? Alton Towers is not built for a single person, it is about appealing to as wider audience as it possibly can.
I for one think the ride looks good, it's an investment in a family-thrill coaster with some surprising additions it seems. A pre-show for a woodie and some interesting queue designs. People complain about Rita's awful cattle pens - and rightly so. Now it appears they're enhancing this queue line experience and people still complain.
Wodan took my breath away and stole the top spot for me from Nemesis. It is a relentless ground hugging coaster which has a very short layout but packs a non-stop punch. Who's to says this cannot replicate some or all of that thrill? GCI are masters at tight turn, fast paced, low height coasters and have barely ever put a foot wrong with a coaster.
I personally think that the cross valley hype train has been going for so long that now Alton have decided to try out a woodie (despite public opinion) and people are moaning because it's not the coaster they wanted. It's taken 22 years for Mandy Land to invest in a new coaster, people should be grateful Alton invest as regularly as they do.
It'll always be the same people moaning that have a problem with everything Alton do so my words are wasted lol
Has anyone even thought about the public's reaction to them installing a valley crossing RMC with a ton of inversions so soon after The Smiler incident? We are all to aware of inverting woodies as we're 'in the know' but how many of the general public in the UK or even Europe are aware a woodie can invert? If alton were all of a sudden to announce an inverting wooden coaster, do you think it would be well received? The public have already stated their concerns over safety through countless polls over the years, do you think they'll get on board with one that inverts?
We've also just had an £18million high thrill coaster, how greedy are you? Alton Towers is not built for a single person, it is about appealing to as wider audience as it possibly can.
I for one think the ride looks good, it's an investment in a family-thrill coaster with some surprising additions it seems. A pre-show for a woodie and some interesting queue designs. People complain about Rita's awful cattle pens - and rightly so. Now it appears they're enhancing this queue line experience and people still complain.
Wodan took my breath away and stole the top spot for me from Nemesis. It is a relentless ground hugging coaster which has a very short layout but packs a non-stop punch. Who's to says this cannot replicate some or all of that thrill? GCI are masters at tight turn, fast paced, low height coasters and have barely ever put a foot wrong with a coaster.
I personally think that the cross valley hype train has been going for so long that now Alton have decided to try out a woodie (despite public opinion) and people are moaning because it's not the coaster they wanted. It's taken 22 years for Mandy Land to invest in a new coaster, people should be grateful Alton invest as regularly as they do.
It'll always be the same people moaning that have a problem with everything Alton do so my words are wasted lol
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Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
this looks like it could be a relatively accurate NL2 model of it:
RyanY
TS Member
That looks nothing like it, it was a concept made before any plans were released.
Obviously like other I was hoping for something more exciting, but I understand why they've gone for this. However it does look like they're going to make a real effort with the theming, so we can hope that budget doesn't get cut like it did with The Smiler and Th13teen.
Sazzle
TS Administrator
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Unfortunately that NL2 sim doesn't relate at all to the current plans, I'd be intrigued to see someone make it up according to what we can see! I'll admit to not being at all NL2 fluent so won't be doing it myself .
I appreciate everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I have to take a step back and admit... We're not the target audience for this!
. I appreciate everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I have to take a step back and admit... We're not the target audience for this!
Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
it's got one bit right, though- the launched lift hill.Unfortunately that NL2 sim doesn't relate at all to the current plans, I'd be intrigued to see someone make it up according to what we can see! I'll admit to not being at all NL2 fluent so won't be doing it myself
I appreciate everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I have to take a step back and admit... We're not the target audience for this!
Rob
TS Team
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
Right, my thoughts. Mixed feelings overall I would say; there are some positive elements but also some elements that are a bit disappointing. Let's break it down.
Positve
I know some are speculating on an inversion based on what has been seen in the plans and I really hope this does not materialise. I've nothing against inversions on woodies and would love to have seen a crazy RMC aimed more at the thrill market that utilised inversions. However this is very clearly a family coaster; putting in an inversion will immediately alienate part of this family market who do not want to go upside down. For example, a family of two parents and two children may all want to ride this coaster with no inversions as it could be great fun and appealing to all but if you add an inversion either younger children or some older parents may be put off.
It is hard to fully interpret the layout from these submitted plans but to me it appears that the height differential from the ride's high point to low point is somewhat small. This to me indicates that some sort of launch is quite likely (on the lift). It wouldn't need to be much but I feel that it would make for a much more exciting ride.
The theme is slightly confusing also (even though details are limited). The coaster is, in my opinion, quite clearly in Mutiny Bay; you enter the queue from near the Flume's station. However the description of the building styles, aged and weathered wooden walls with thatch effect roofing, lends itself to more of a Katanga Canyon theme. It will be interesting to see how this turns out, I'm just hoping it is not an IP!
It feels like we have less details from these plans compared to previous SW plans at the moment. I'm wondering if we will get more detailed theming and building plans at a later date, a bit like we did with The Smiler. It is still relatively early days in the planning of this ride and chances are final theming details have not yet been confirmed, hence the presence of "theming envelopes" in the plans. I would imagine more details would need to be submitted at a later date once they are complete.
Positve
- A wooden coaster at Towers, something many of us have wanted for years!
- Towers seem to have learnt several lessons; firstly they have given themselves far more time to complete this project with the very early planning application, aiming to have all construction completed by December 2017 gives plenty of time testing and allows for potential delays.
- Another lesson learnt - we have a queue that isn't a cattlepen and actually looks drawn out and interesting!
- The pre-show sounds quite substantial and hints that this could have more of a story based theme than previous SWs.
- Some sort of launch looks likely.
- The layout does look a little short but for the site it's on I'm not convinced they could have made it a lot better. I do not think this is the best location within Alton Towers for a wooden coaster and this could be viewed as a missed opportunity in 5 or 10 years time.
- There's not actually anything else negative to say at the moment (and hopefully it will stay that way)!
I know some are speculating on an inversion based on what has been seen in the plans and I really hope this does not materialise. I've nothing against inversions on woodies and would love to have seen a crazy RMC aimed more at the thrill market that utilised inversions. However this is very clearly a family coaster; putting in an inversion will immediately alienate part of this family market who do not want to go upside down. For example, a family of two parents and two children may all want to ride this coaster with no inversions as it could be great fun and appealing to all but if you add an inversion either younger children or some older parents may be put off.
It is hard to fully interpret the layout from these submitted plans but to me it appears that the height differential from the ride's high point to low point is somewhat small. This to me indicates that some sort of launch is quite likely (on the lift). It wouldn't need to be much but I feel that it would make for a much more exciting ride.
The theme is slightly confusing also (even though details are limited). The coaster is, in my opinion, quite clearly in Mutiny Bay; you enter the queue from near the Flume's station. However the description of the building styles, aged and weathered wooden walls with thatch effect roofing, lends itself to more of a Katanga Canyon theme. It will be interesting to see how this turns out, I'm just hoping it is not an IP!
It feels like we have less details from these plans compared to previous SW plans at the moment. I'm wondering if we will get more detailed theming and building plans at a later date, a bit like we did with The Smiler. It is still relatively early days in the planning of this ride and chances are final theming details have not yet been confirmed, hence the presence of "theming envelopes" in the plans. I would imagine more details would need to be submitted at a later date once they are complete.
EuroSatch
TS Member
I'm a bit rubbish at looking through the plans, but what information do we have from them in terms of a) the pre-show (is it just that we are aware there is one?) and b) the extent of the initial drop?
Saying that Wodan has a dull layout is a false comparison however as it doesn't take the vertical profile into consideration. Although granted White Lightning at Fun Spot America is also a delight and its drop is fairly small by comparison.
I too am confused by the theme, I've heard several people say it'll be themed to Katanga Canyon, however access is clearly via Mutiny Bay. Could this become a small solitary area?
Also, in terms of the space available, I do believe they've missed a trick. The old coach car park the other side of KC is crying out for development, and the optimist in me had grand plans of the track extending out to here by racing over the rapids and the pathway to KC. This was always going to be a pipe dream however
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Saying that Wodan has a dull layout is a false comparison however as it doesn't take the vertical profile into consideration. Although granted White Lightning at Fun Spot America is also a delight and its drop is fairly small by comparison.
I too am confused by the theme, I've heard several people say it'll be themed to Katanga Canyon, however access is clearly via Mutiny Bay. Could this become a small solitary area?
Also, in terms of the space available, I do believe they've missed a trick. The old coach car park the other side of KC is crying out for development, and the optimist in me had grand plans of the track extending out to here by racing over the rapids and the pathway to KC. This was always going to be a pipe dream however
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