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2018: Wicker Man - General Discussion - SPOILERS! - Part One

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PeteB said:
Nemesis - The Pit - I could see how this would cost a lot. The ride's budget was £10m (approx 19m in todays money), so £4m on marketing, meaning the B&M coaster and pit was probably in the region of £6m. Maybe £1m for the pit and £5m on ride hardware? Seems more realistic to me.

Air - The Technology - Negative. This is B&M's product, that wouldn't cost the park.

Oblivion - The tunnel - Agree, hence why the ride is so short, and I'm sure the water splash section was cut also.

Th13teen - The freefall drop - Negative. Intamin already had the magnetic braking technology, and again the drop track setion is another product for them now, one that they've gone on to sell with other rides.

The Smiler - Sheer amount of steel - Negative. Gerstlauer are cheap, and Saw is a similarly lengthy ride.

SW8 - We'll have to wait and see - I do hope there is some "secret" even if it's just something as simple as The Smiler's first inversion, which they were so keen to hide. It will certainly add more interest in the build up to opening day.
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What I was actually meaning was visual justification for the advertised budget to the general public etc, not our own who know the cost of rides. ;)

Nemesis - could be easily covered by the excavation costs
Oblivion - As above - "it goes for miles underground and must have cost millions!!"
Air - At the time the technology could be perceived as witchcraft and so the GP would have thought "oh yes this must have cost millions to make"
Th13teen - For similar effect as the drop mechanics would not be cheap in the eyes of the GP because it was 'World's first'.
The Smiler - "All that metal and stuffs must have cost millions!!"

I know they play around with figures but if SW8 is advertised enough at £15million and it doesn't have any of the above GP perceptions then it may back fire. That's what I was getting at ;)
 
Spike said:
What I was actually meaning was visual justification for the advertised budget to the general public etc, not our own who know the cost of rides. ;)

Nemesis - could be easily covered by the excavation costs
Oblivion - As above - "it goes for miles underground and must have cost millions!!"
Air - At the time the technology could be perceived as witchcraft and so the GP would have thought "oh yes this must have cost millions to make"
Th13teen - For similar effect as the drop mechanics would not be cheap in the eyes of the GP because it was 'World's first'.
The Smiler - "All that metal and stuffs must have cost millions!!"

I know they play around with figures but if SW8 is advertised enough at £15million and it doesn't have any of the above GP perceptions then it may back fire. That's what I was getting at ;)
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Ah ok, I'm with you now.

In that case I would agree. From a visual standpoint some of the rides look very expensive, especially when they get hyped with marketing. I did however question Th13teen, and this was when it started for me. I just remember the first time I saw it and thinking "how the hell did this cost £15m, there's nothing to it?"

BUT if the GP have a brain (mostly not) they would look at Icon vs SW8 and think Towers were getting ripped off. As I do ha! :D
 
PeteB said:
Ah ok, I'm with you now.

In that case I would agree. From a visual standpoint some of the rides look very expensive, especially when they get hyped with marketing. I did however question Th13teen, and this was when it started for me. I just remember the first time I saw it and thinking "how the hell did this cost £15m, there's nothing to it?"

BUT if the GP have a brain (mostly not) they would look at Icon vs SW8 and think Towers were getting ripped off. As I do ha! :D
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I wasn't going to bring Icon into this mix as I was purely going on the SW franchise here. I don't think they would compare the 2 because the GP will just be like "OMG PBB are building a new coaster and also Alton are too, we must visit both, then we must sell our organs to fund a nights stay at Legoland's new Dragon hotel"

All other SW's have had something that have warranted the advertised budget to the GP's eye, I really hope SW8 doesn't break this trend. We all know Mandy - god love her - has 2018 all wrapped for enthusiasts and the GP but Alton still have the obscene marketing budget and despite the yearly meetings of Merlin, Drayton and Pleasure Beach that happen to share 'best practice' they will still be competing. I kinda want SW8 to remain the red headed step child, let Mandy have her year and introduce an epic coaster to the mix un-contested, after all Icon is '300,000 hours in the making'

I digress and mock a lil, but I'm so excited, this is Mandy's year and I hope Pleasure Beach capitalise and Icon propels them back into contention as one of the leading parks in the country, it's been far too long.
 
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PeteB said:
Quite honestly, probably never. They don't care. Only the public would give two hoots about the cost of a Rollercoaster. For business to business it's different. I learned this from working in the AV industry, where there are basically 3 price tiers:
  1. None advertised prices - meaning they don't talk to anyone except actual customers what the price is.
  2. Punter rates - idiot prices and the ones generally get advertised on websites, brochures etc.
  3. The real price - usually about 50% less than the idiot prices but depends on your relationship with the supplier.
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Same tiers in the instrument business, but we have an added tier for dealers etc. I can imagine it being similar here.
 
I've just realised the new theme's Vikings!!! Anyone else think so with the thatched roofs and the horns on the man statue thing? The run down weathered panels on the building and the strange buliding shape works with Mutiny Bay! The entrance looks to be in mutiny bay (in small writing on plans) says entrance and exit where the Flume's was but to the opposite side also there's fasttrack and single rider. Yay single riders always best, apart from on th13teen it never works..
 
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I agree but I think it could be an African theme for Katanga canyon. The theming could be a large animal: elephant or mammoth. Then again I'm probably wrong because of where the queue entrances are.
 
I don't really think theres any speculation left to be had on the name/theme, we had rumors about a 'wicker man' theme even before Merlin applied for the trademark and that has all but confirmed it. On top of that it looks like we have a giant construction of a figure as the main theming piece of the ride. I don't think there any doubt this ride will be in some way based on The Wicker Man (not necessarily the film).

I also think it will be listed as being in Mutiny Bay but will be a standalone theme. Merlin don't seem to particularly care about consistent experiences any more.
 
I've seen The Wicker Man mentioned a few times and having never seen the film before I looked up about it, it seems very dark and leftfield for Alton to theme it based on the film, I'm guessing it would be an IP as well as it appears the movie isn't based on anything other than the screenwriters imagination, so I'm guessing like Saw? It's a pretty graphic horror film from what I've heard and read and seems a really bizarre move from Alton if true.

This is a family thrill coaster that they're looking to theme to a cult horror film which has no connection to either Katanga or Mutiny Bay themes. I just don't get it :confused:
 
I don't think it'll be themed exactly to The Wicker Man, but I guess it'll probably take some inspiration from it, or at least be themed around the idea of a wicker man, which I think is probably the more likely option they'll take.
 
Spike said:
I've seen The Wicker Man mentioned a few times and having never seen the film before I looked up about it, it seems very dark and leftfield for Alton to theme it based on the film, I'm guessing it would be an IP as well as it appears the movie isn't based on anything other than the screenwriters imagination, so I'm guessing like Saw? It's a pretty graphic horror film from what I've heard and read and seems a really bizarre move from Alton if true.

This is a family thrill coaster that they're looking to theme to a cult horror film which has no connection to either Katanga or Mutiny Bay themes. I just don't get it :confused:
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Not necessarily IP, the legend of wickermen for sacrificial purposes has been around since at least the Roman times when Caesar used them as a (probably completely invented) example of the barbarian nature of the Celts ruling vast areas of the UK. The stories have been around much longer than the movies so it could potentially use the theme without being connected to the Film(s).
 
Hi so Im back from alton towers yesterday with a small update on sw8, it looks like they have completely built the building foundations and concrete for the main building and shop. I didn't see them really doing anything at all yesterday they must have had about 3 coffee breaks in the space of 2 hours :sweatsmile: anyway now to the left of the coach carpark theres all the mud from out the ground and not really much mud piles on site so not sure if there saving it for landscaping or I think it would have been moved already. But the main thing by the green staff building to the left is loads of the metal grills and concreate bags along with what looks to be a steam roller !!! so there not that far off getting the wood in hopefully throught I best get all the details:smiley:
 
Spike said:
I've seen The Wicker Man mentioned a few times and having never seen the film before I looked up about it, it seems very dark and leftfield for Alton to theme it based on the film, I'm guessing it would be an IP as well as it appears the movie isn't based on anything other than the screenwriters imagination, so I'm guessing like Saw? It's a pretty graphic horror film from what I've heard and read and seems a really bizarre move from Alton if true.

This is a family thrill coaster that they're looking to theme to a cult horror film which has no connection to either Katanga or Mutiny Bay themes. I just don't get it :confused:
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Well alton towers theming not great its all boaring and dark but like you said basically the rides dont really fit in with the themeing areas but sw8 looks like it will for a change but I so wanna work for merlin so I can sort out there theming and customer serivce the only good theming they did was swarm and mutiny bay thirteens just average :/ I want there theming to be better like ATR used to be katanga canyon themings my favorite plus they have the old music back so happy I could have cried :relieved:although no choo choo from the staff anyway going off topic and omg I agree the movie looks bizzard to say its for children like there putting the message across that they hate kids o_O confused.:( Im going of the picture on google
 
evilcod said:
Not necessarily IP, the legend of wickermen for sacrificial purposes has been around since at least the Roman times when Caesar used them as a (probably completely invented) example of the barbarian nature of the Celts ruling vast areas of the UK. The stories have been around much longer than the movies so it could potentially use the theme without being connected to the Film(s).
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Ah okay, I couldn't find anything on it other than the films as I wanted to know if it was it based off something historical. I still think it's a very dark theme (not in colour as I know Merlin's love a dark theme) a cult sacrificial style coaster where people are burnt alive just seems really odd :confused:
 
Spike said:
Ah okay, I couldn't find anything on it other than the films as I wanted to know if it was it based off something historical. I still think it's a very dark theme (not in colour as I know Merlin's love a dark theme) a cult sacrificial style coaster where people are burnt alive just seems really odd :confused:
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Yup, not the most ideal theme. Though most modern takes on it, "burning man festival" etc have done away with the sacrifice bit and kept the burning wicker man.

More info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicker_man
 
Are we sure the Wickerman IP has been registered specifically for this ride or could Wickermsn be for something else within the Merlin stable? As said it's a really dark IP for something that is essentially going to fill the void between Octonauts and Runaway Mine Train?
 
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IanSR said:
fill the void between Octonauts and Runaway Mine Train
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Slightly pedantic but I actually see SW8 as filling the gap between mine train and Thirteen. They don't have a coaster less intense than Mine Train (except Octonauts) and I don't expect SW8 to be either.
 
I'd expect the coaster to be on the same level if not more intense than Th13teen to be fair, that ride isn't particularly extreme. GCI's are quite intense coasters, even on a smaller scale. SW8 will likely be no different.
 
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