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2018: Wicker Man - General Discussion - SPOILERS! - Part One

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Benzin said:
Everything that happened with Nemesis, Oblivion and Air is a different time, under a different company and ethos... It's fairly obvious through the majority of Merlin's additions that you can't do anything without a USP, even if it desperately needs work being done to it...
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How are theme parks any different to other business'? they're not a labour of love play-park wanting to break even year-upon-year, they're there to make money and USP's make money. In order to compete in the vastly competitive world, USP's are vital. Theme parks are no different.
 
A lot of people seem to see the parks as some idyllic thing when in reality there like any other business in the world out there to make money.
Parks won't change their policies if they make enthusiasts unhappy because the vast majority of visitors are members of the public and they don't care about the same things as us. The only time things will change is if it affects the bottom line.
 
On a side note: we know the ride is going to have some form of large statue or 'theming element' as it's being referred to, but I saw someone mention an indoor section during the ride? I heard we were also getting a pre-show, so I'm very intrigued about the specific 'show' that we might see and if there's much more to this than just the coaster. Knowing Alton Towers, we shouldn't expect much more than an audio/visual experience - no practical effects? Although someone also said the theming element was rigged with underground pipes...
 
Spike said:
How are theme parks any different to other business'? they're not a labour of love play-park wanting to break even year-upon-year, they're there to make money and USP's make money. In order to compete in the vastly competitive world, USP's are vital. Theme parks are no different.
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You've missed my point entirely there (and even then, there are some parks which are labours of love, or who push guest experience over things that would get them further profits), but I was looking at the differences of Tussauds when building Nemesis and the like and Merlin now...

Key word is ethos... Tussauds in the 90s clearly looked towards the long term, whereas Merlin do not, hence their whole 3 years of Studios investment for any new ride and blaming Swarm for poor attendance figures in 2012 (because it's not like there was anything major going on that year), as well as their obsession over the USP even if it's detrimental to a park/ride or the concept just isn't ready to be used in a full theme park environment...

Innovation for innovations sake isn't a particularly good route to take...
 
Tussauds made a mint and rapidly expanded out of real innovation without any world's first nonsense, with the likes of Haunted House, Nemesis, etc.

The Merlin world's first, "compelling proposition", "killer image" criterion and approval of every single development stage by the Merlin board's somewhat subjective and shareholder-biased opinion - often at the cost of spending money where needs be to make the ride the best it can be for the public (not "just enthusiasts") - is fairly well known if you have ever been involved in the industry, has been openly criticised by john wardley, etc.

I obviously wont go into detail and publish 'inside industry sources' or my CV for the sake of arguing with stubborn users on the internet, this is a theme park forum, so choose not to believe me if you dont want to.

So no need to throw your lairy straw man arguments back at me. And what a big waste of my time it would be if I were just talking out my bum. Im not telling you what you should be thinking, just stating a point :)

Let's back to the proper discussion !
 
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Following on from my post yesterday, regarding the right clicked logo, coming up as Plague (I incorrectly read it, it in fact said Plaque) However, it has now actually been changed to Plague? They like having a laugh with enthusiasts don't they.
 
electricBill said:
So no need to throw your lairy straw man arguments back at me. And what a big waste of my time it would be if I were just talking out my bum. Im not telling you what you should be thinking, just stating a point :)
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"lairy straw man arguments" Wicker Man theme confirmed!! This has to be confirmed now, why would you say that with your secret inside industry knowledge if you didn't already know it's themed around Wicker Man for sure!

electricBill said:
Let's back to the proper discussion !
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Now it's 100% confirmed, you're trying to move the conversation back on topic a ruse to throw us off the secret information you know that nobody else does. Either that or you have no answers to my response and just wanted to throw shade before trying to change the subject. Nah, you're more likely to be - electricBose, Alton's true secret weapon. :rolleyes:
 
Spike said:
"lairy straw man arguments" Wicker Man theme confirmed!! This has to be confirmed now, why would you say that with your secret inside industry knowledge if you didn't already know it's themed around Wicker Man for sure!



Now it's 100% confirmed, you're trying to move the conversation back on topic a ruse to throw us off the secret information you know that nobody else does. Either that or you have no answers to my response and just wanted to throw shade before trying to change the subject. Nah, you're more likely to be - electricBose, Alton's true secret weapon. :rolleyes:
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Could we please stop with the sarcastic veiled insults? A post actually about SW8 would be great right now!
 
Tibble said:
Any ideas what the train will look like? (if thats the right term)
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All we know from the plans is that it will be the standard Millennium Flyer trains with a 'wicker' brown (If they station roof is anything to go by basically a very dark black) colour.

In all honesty, I'm surprised no-one has figured what the hieroglyphics mean yet!
 
Alastair said:
Could we please stop with the sarcastic veiled insults?
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Yes please lol though just to explain (in case it was misinterpreted by anyone) "straw man argument" wasnt an insult, it means the way of misrepresenting a point made for someone else to avoid debating what I actually meant. I dont have time to insult & argue, if people disagree with me then so long as they reason themselves sensibly I'll listen!
...

My point is I think this coaster, which is both wooden (shock horror! A few years back they said theyd never do one) and neither a "world's first", is a promising anomaly. So SW8, despite not being anything too special in the world of woodies, is at least a step in the right direction from Merlin's usual short-termism.

Thats why I hope it does well and Im genuinly interested to see it turn out. As others have said, this could do a great job to dispell the public attitude against wooden coasters, and be a stepping stone to more fun.
 
It's interesting it's a wooden coaster when we look back on past comments that these coasters do not pass market research due to being percieved as old and unsafe by the public.

If anything this wooden coaster couldn't come at a worse time in Alton Towers history, when they are trying to build trust with the public following The Smiler crash.

It will be interesting to see what makes this ride pass Merlin's mandatory 'compelling proposition'.

If It doesn't have one then... wow, maybe Merlin are learning... maybe... probably not.

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk
 
This is only a step in the right direction as far as it is, at last, a wooden coaster at Towers. But I don't get the argument that this is somehow a good thing that it doesn't have a "world's first".

Because if it isn't a "world's first", then it has to be, in Towers own language - "world class". We've all seen the plans and this coaster is neither.

So what we're left with, is a £15m half decent baby woodie that is only unique in that it's new and there aren't many like it in the UK. So they don't have a Nemesis style world class coaster OR a Smiler style marketing gimmick coaster. Sounds like a strange move to me?
 
I think it could even be sensible for Alton Towers to avoid a 'world's first' attraction right now. The Smiler wasn't exactly plain sailing for them, even before the accident.

I heard things about the design of that ride long before it opened, stuff from people who would get in a lot of trouble for sharing such information.
 
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To be honest, I'm quite skeptical of the whole wicker man theme, it really could be anything, there is pagan wicker, African wicker and don't forget that one scene from pirates of the Caribbean where they get stuck in that giant wicker ball, my point is, the wicker man thing could easily be little more that a word mildly related to the themes geographical setting.
Also, can someone compare the roof tiles on SW8's station to the roof tiles used in Mutiny Bay?
 
matthewgcole said:
This is only a step in the right direction as far as it is, at last, a wooden coaster at Towers. But I don't get the argument that this is somehow a good thing that it doesn't have a "world's first".
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Yeah I agree, but I think you answer your own question. They would have much rather pushed for another 'worlds first' or a superlative concept, which this woodie isn't, so the good thing about this not being a world's first is that it's allowed a wooden coaster to be built in the first place. Such a shame it's a very compromised layout though, and who knows, it will probably still try to have some kind of token twist to make up for the mediocre layout.

So its more a good step in the right direction for their flawed marketing policies (baring in mind, marketing is different to promotion, SW8's promotion has actually been oddly vague so far) rather than a step ahead in the coaster offering.

Perhaps people have realised their previous marketing policies weren't actually producing any workable or sustainable results, let alone best attractions. (projects like Sub Terra, Ice Age, Im A Celebrity, The Swarm, Saw Alive, many of which were needlessly costly for a medicore outcome and pretty short lived).

I wouldn't hold out too much hope, but would be interesting to see what happens for Alton Towers though. Especially since The Smiler also barely promoted its "compelling proposition" world's first, and still that was hugely popular because it had a good concept and was ambitious.
 
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