Secret Weapon
TS Member
I think Thorpe Park is closed for 3 days next week (Monday 14th to Wednesday 16th October), so maybe this would be the best time to add the second train back onto the track?
-
ℹ️ Heads up...
This is a popular topic that is fast moving Guest - before posting, please ensure that you check out the first post in the topic for a quick reminder of guidelines, and importantly a summary of the known facts and information so far. Thanks.
[2024] Thorpe Park: Hyperia - Mack Hypercoaster
- Thread starter Burbs
- Start date
flyingguitar
TS Member
I wouldn't imagine them needing to close it as I think they may be able to put it back on in the maitanence bay but do remember they have to re assemble the train as they had to disassemble it to get it off the track.
Any coaster operating within normal parameters that valleys is flawed. Yes, you can get an unexpected gust of wind just a the wrong second, or a failed wheel bearing, but these are also within normal parameters... It should work from cold - not require extended warm-up.
IMHO if you want to create near-stall experiences, design for when it becomes a stall. A mini-LIM booster isn't so expensive - apply near to the "near stall", measure speed of coaster and apply as appropriately. And whilst you're at it, buy a spare train
(I quite hate that they still build coasters without separate load/unload).
Benzin
TS Member
Define "expensive".
Bear in mind that the train needs to suit LIMs & a lift chain, so add on cost of converting the trains as well.
Then time spent working out the optimum section of track to place it on.
Then manufacturing or modifying the track so it can allow the LIMs to sit on it.
Then making sure the park has suitable power supply to factor in the addition need. So best dig up some electrical cables.
People out here acting like real life is RCT.
Bear in mind that the train needs to suit LIMs & a lift chain, so add on cost of converting the trains as well.
Then time spent working out the optimum section of track to place it on.
Then manufacturing or modifying the track so it can allow the LIMs to sit on it.
Then making sure the park has suitable power supply to factor in the addition need. So best dig up some electrical cables.
People out here acting like real life is RCT.
@Benzin . There isn't any cost - it's built-in! Quite easy to have a few cars that are LIM-enabled, quite easy to add the power requirement, quite easy to install LIM on any track and with sensors enable as required.
The ISSUE is that Mack built a coaster with near-stalls and did none of the above. Coaster 101.
The ISSUE is that Mack built a coaster with near-stalls and did none of the above. Coaster 101.
DiogoJ42
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- The Metropolitan Line
Not when the ride wasn't designed for them it's not.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Indeed if you look at track that has LIMS there will be modifications within the fabrication of the track to accommodate. The trains theoretically could run on LIMs as they use magnetic breaking but you would need to completely replace the track.
It’s why you see trims on coasters that once operating are never used (Air), it’s easier to put them in at design phase and never need it than retrofit it.
It’s why you see trims on coasters that once operating are never used (Air), it’s easier to put them in at design phase and never need it than retrofit it.
Benzin
TS Member
Pure conjecture claim there.
Are there many full train coasters that have both chain lift and LIM capability? Eurofighters can be done off top of my head but that's a different design (i.e. individual car and the vertical lift) all together. Not many rides implement both methods (and some that do have a launch and lift tend to be 'softer' tyre based systems like Thirteen).
Rides can stall. It's just a fact that isn't necessarily prepared for accordingly. And have never seen any ride that has stalled (from Smiler, Diamondback or that Pinfari at Milky Way I watched stall in front of me) haven't been retro-fitted with LIMs or boosters in any description.
Why is this? Well probably because it often rarely happens. Twice is too many times from an overall perspective but out of the days it's actually operated is a fairly low percentage (someone I'm sure can do an actual calculation). Is it worth the additional expenditure? Probably as much as it's worth buying a 3rd train as a "just in case" something happens. It's not a case of stingy accountants, it's just financial sense.
It also fails to account the additional potential failures such additions could bring. Sensors fail and it stalls anyway? Dread to think how much effort would be to do a reset (like Voltron did and is designed to do) with a fully laden 20 seater train.
I refer back to my comment on armchair engineers. Lots of assumptions on how Mack have gone about this as if none of their team have the first idea about designing roller coasters, all the while with suggestions that just aren't simple to implement.
Even if you threw things in during the design phase, if the customer sees these changes as unnecessary so remove them to keep costs down then have to do as they have requested.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Technically it’s simple to have a train that could do both a lift hill and a LIM launch as modern coasters use magnetic brakes and the on train hardware for magnetic brakes is the same as the LIM launch. If you wanted to plan a ride that did that it would be easy.
Retrofitting LIMs assumes the specification of the static magnets on Hyperia is compatible with LIMS however, which no one on here knows. But that is entirely academic as it’s not likely to happen. They will work on the wheel compounds instead.
Retrofitting LIMs assumes the specification of the static magnets on Hyperia is compatible with LIMS however, which no one on here knows. But that is entirely academic as it’s not likely to happen. They will work on the wheel compounds instead.
flyingguitar
TS Member
This gave me a chuckle
Really you think you know more than people who literally design coasters for a living, everyone says how it has mag brakes, so it should be possible to add them, and it isn't that expensive and what not, but no according to ryan the ride mechanic he thinks it would be about £25,000 per stator, not cheap, especially when you add all of the power, track modifications, and computer modifications, it would probably close to millions in total and would probably get break downs very often because something went wrong with the launch/sensors etc.
he thinks they may be able to add them in, although from a design perspective I am not sure as I would imagine the lim launch trains would have to have more support arround the magnets to enable it to push forward (braking and accelerating are 2 different directions).
fun fact, big thunder mountain at disney uses lsm to bring the train into the station (although no fast launches)
TP have FINALLY put a warning/advisory on the mobile app, saying Hyperia is running reduced capacity, queue times may be longer !!!!!!
They really do not help themselves do they, this message should have gone on the app days/week ago. Lots of debate, difference of opinion on here, and on the net generally, about releasing fault information, details of repairs etc; but "miss" the one thing that has a huge impact on the general visiting public. Wonder how many / if any, complaints they have had about Jo Public not being aware the queue times were going to be horrendous - and did they finally think it may be the right thing to do.
Things do go wrong, of course they do, but let Jo Public know the important stuff, like their shiny new prestigous ride may not "practically" be available to ride. We have visited a few times over the past week, and spoke to Jo Public, who were very dissapointed about Hyperia; not able/willing to queue for 2 / 3 hours to ride, but worse not being aware before their visit that it was very likely.
It is my personal opinion that if/when the Universal Studios opens in Bedfordshire, we might get some real competition for Merlin; and they might just finally realise how important good customer service is. Although myself and partner renewed (for the first time) our Merlin passes this year, it was for the rides - Merlin as an organisation did NOT deserve our business (that is how we felt emotionally). That complacent attitude is a dangerous place for a business to be in, particularly with real competition a real prospect.
They really do not help themselves do they, this message should have gone on the app days/week ago. Lots of debate, difference of opinion on here, and on the net generally, about releasing fault information, details of repairs etc; but "miss" the one thing that has a huge impact on the general visiting public. Wonder how many / if any, complaints they have had about Jo Public not being aware the queue times were going to be horrendous - and did they finally think it may be the right thing to do.
Things do go wrong, of course they do, but let Jo Public know the important stuff, like their shiny new prestigous ride may not "practically" be available to ride. We have visited a few times over the past week, and spoke to Jo Public, who were very dissapointed about Hyperia; not able/willing to queue for 2 / 3 hours to ride, but worse not being aware before their visit that it was very likely.
It is my personal opinion that if/when the Universal Studios opens in Bedfordshire, we might get some real competition for Merlin; and they might just finally realise how important good customer service is. Although myself and partner renewed (for the first time) our Merlin passes this year, it was for the rides - Merlin as an organisation did NOT deserve our business (that is how we felt emotionally). That complacent attitude is a dangerous place for a business to be in, particularly with real competition a real prospect.
Last edited:
GooseOnTheLoose
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Ug Bugs
I would argue that the intention has been to get the second train back into operation much sooner than has been practically possible. The hold off on an update to the listing on the app, is likely down to wishful thinking: "It might be ok for tomorrow, it might be ok for tomorrow, it might be ok for tomorrow..."
The update to the app does suggest that Hyperia will be running a single train operation for longer than initially expected. It is possible that an engineering team has discovered a fault with the train which valleyed, one which isn't easily or quickly remedied.
Watch me look very silly if the second train returns to operation before the end of the week.
Merlin isn't the only operator of themed attractions in the UK, nor are they without competition. Any other player, most of whom have been operating for longer than Merlin, are welcome and able to deliver exceptional customer service and "raise the bar" whenever they want. If there are any which do (pre-empting Goose's Law of Thoosie Discourse) and Merlin isn't meeting or matching, precedent suggests than an additional player isn't going to have an impact. You also presume that any additional player will want to raise the bar, for customer service, and not just happily stay at the level the rest of the industry is at.
Last edited:
Quite - and Jo Public (as opposed to us informed Towers group) have no idea when they are pre planning their visit. Very poor customer service.
I do hope that cynical, but possibly accurate viewpoint is wrong!!!!
Trouble is Merlin, arguably has the bigger proportion and spread of rides/attractions in the UK, and is probably the "major" player. Sadly in our experience in the past 18 months of having passes, your "exceptional" customer service "target" is a million miles from reality. Very poor is closer to the reality, in our personal experience. Love the product, hate the attitude. We can live in hope that a big player such as Universal will raise the bar; we all have to have hope, don't we????
Seriously - a simple message on the mobile app, a week ago, advising long queue times were to be expected on Hyperia, would have been a step closer to "good" customer service, and good manners. Merlin have customers, not fodder!!!
A "Thoosie" approach of wanting to know everything, the n-th degree of detail in every breakdown or fault, messages posted on every available place in the park, or war and peace on everything Merlin does, is NOT the right approach or indeed helpful. Good manners, and approriate succint messaging in the app about Hyperia is something we should expect.
Obviously I am not getting at you GooseOnTheLoose, just arguing with you for the sake of the future of humanity (joke)
, but in the hope that, at the very least reasonable or OK customer service prevails in the industry - it is after all an entertainment business
Last edited:
New ride opens, malfunctions, and continues to run in the first season on reduced capacity with long queues.
Yup, that is what happens with most new coasters isn't it?
The complaints get mopped up with fasttracks and return tickets.
Not known it ever not happen in decades, right back to the Big One and T'ultimate.
Yup, that is what happens with most new coasters isn't it?
The complaints get mopped up with fasttracks and return tickets.
Not known it ever not happen in decades, right back to the Big One and T'ultimate.
Just to clarify, I am not complaining at all that Hyperia is having issues. Made that quite clear, these things happen. My issue is bad manners. If Jo Public had been looking at the app, their take would have been an average queue time of 60 to 90 mins before the single train operation. Afterwards, the practical expectation more like 120 to 180, at busy times such as weekends. We have just gone through a very busy Fright Night weekend - Friday to Sunday. If Jo Public had been aware that queue times were likely to have been at that level, they may have chosen not to go. Some people cannot queue for that length of time - physical, emotional, time pressures, other rides etc. It is, in my opinion, bad manners, and an example of poor customer service by Merlin, not to advise their general customer base via the app, until today.
Last edited: