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A gap in the market?

Towerslover

Towerslover

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I've been thinking recently, there is a gap in the market in the uk for a world class theme park with world class rides & theming. Wether it would be indoors, outdoors I don't know but it would be great to see a new competitor to create competition with Merlin and push everyone to be better. Especially with reduced opening hours at towers. Very quiet from paramount too.

Discuss...
(Sorry if this is in the wrong place!)
 
Ideally yes there would be a gap. In reality I do not think there is right now, if there was a significant gap in the market then I think London Paramount would have progressed somewhat more than it has.

Even I concede that the chances of Paramount happening now are slim but it's still the best chance of any major new park in the UK any time soon. It would be interesting to see what was to happen if it did ever open.

:)
 
I'd say there is a need for a large indoor park or area at an existing park. If it was to be well themed it would ramp the pressure on Merlin.

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There is market surely for something moderate in size between Edinburgh and Glasgow

Top 10 most populous cities UK:

London 7200000 (Thorpe / Lego / CWOA / Adventure Island)
Birmingham 992000 (Drayton / Alton)
Leeds 720000 (Flamingo / Lightwater)
Glasgow 560000
Sheffield 512000 (Flamingo / Lightwater / Alton)
Bradford 467000 (Flamingo / Lightwater / Alton)
Edinburgh 450000
Liverpool 440000 (Blackpool / Alton)
Manchester 420000 (Blackpool / Alton)
Bristol 380000
 
Nicole has countered Scotland by claiming the point of alienating the South and Wales with such a location. You'd get the 5 mil of Scotland but lose the London figure etc
 
I think there is more chance of the resort sector such as Center Parcs growing. Most of the money is in trapping guests on site for several days (this is why Disney in Florida offers free transfers from the airport). But imagine if Center Parcs added a small theme park area as well as their existing offerings.
 
I know some people will disagree, but Blackpool Pleasure Beach and Alton Towers aren't too far away from being world class. After a period of losing money, Blackpool are just about in profit again. If things go well with their Mack launched coaster then there's some real potential there. Not to be a Universals or Disney kind of park, but a world class collection of historic rides with a few world class modern rides (Valhalla is one of the best water rides out there). After a period when several 'classics' were destroyed and they added a second hand SLC I think some people did lose confidence in the park, but it's not too late to turn things around and if they get this next coaster right, it will be a big start.

I'd say that Alton Towers does have a world class setting. It's hard to think of a vista that's as impressive as the Towers or Gardens. Some of the rides at Towers probably are world class too. Particularly Nemesis and Hex. To be considered world class overall they probably do need longer opening hours, more live entertainment and a couple more non-coaster rides, but both Towers and Blackpool could both be seen amongst the world's top theme parks.
 
Having lived in Scotland for a bit, I just don't think a major theme park would work there unfortunately. It would be too far from the major population centres of Northern England and I don't think there's enough of an appetite for that type of attraction amongst the Scottish public.

Loudoun Castle was a nice little park but it couldn't survive in that economic climate. I haven't seen any compelling evidence to suggest that a larger park with better theming would fare any better.
 
What actually IS world class?

Towers and Blackpool could already be considered as such as they are well known around the globe... Then you have opinions to add in (for example, some might consider Cedar Point world class, others not) and the question isn't that simple...

It's unlikely a massive scale park will be built in the UK due to red tape and politics, so we have to rely on someone pulling their finger out...
 
Word class is of course subjective. Scale is a far more objective way of looking at it and I think a larger scale park is what is/should be being talked about here. I agree, it's very unlikely to happen.

:)
 
AstroDan said:
There is market surely for something moderate in size between Edinburgh and Glasgow

Top 10 most populous cities UK:

London 7200000 (Thorpe / Lego / CWOA / Adventure Island)
Birmingham 992000 (Drayton / Alton)
Leeds 720000 (Flamingo / Lightwater)
Glasgow 560000
Sheffield 512000 (Flamingo / Lightwater / Alton)
Bradford 467000 (Flamingo / Lightwater / Alton)
Edinburgh 450000
Liverpool 440000 (Blackpool / Alton)
Manchester 420000 (Blackpool / Alton)
Bristol 380000
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When you do this list for greater urban areas though (as opposed to unitary authority boundaries which vary massively) that list changes substantially. Bradford for instance would be 531,0000 and Glasgow would jump to 2.3m and Bristol would jump to 1m.

When you consider the wider metropolitan areas, it muddies the waters further and changes again (Leeds and Bradford areas together, Manchester with Liverpool and Bristol with Bath for example).

I think a possible location would be heavily reliant on factors such as transport and density of population in a certain region, I.e population within x distance/x travelling time. Then you also have seasonality to consider, such as an area of the country that already attracts large numbers of people at certain times of year etc that a future park could piggy back off of.
 
I think the problem comes when trying to get capital for this sort of project.

Option 1: Take a large plot of land near a major city and invest in a high risk business, such as a theme park, with a long term view to creating a profitable, going concern.

Or

Option 2: Use same plot of land to build a load of houses and sell on for a quick turnaround, with a virtually guarenteed return on investment.

There are simply too many better ways to invest that sort of money, which is why even Merlin seem to be spending more on hotel accommodation than theme park rides at the moment.

The cost of building the infrastructure alone would be enormous, and I could only see a company who is well drilled in constructing new, large scale theme parks building anything in the U.K.

Paramount Park or a Universal park is our only hope from the tyranie of Merlin.
 
MaxPower said:
Paramount Park or a Universal park is our only hope
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And the existing plan for a Paramount branded park has nothing to do with any existing parks, hence it having the capital issues you discussed.

Best chance would be someone buying up a cheap park and bringing it up to standard, but that opportunity has gone with American Adventure or Camelot.
 
Another disadvantage a Scottish park might have is peoples willingness to travel. Towers get a lot of Scottish guests and its not uncommon to have people travel 100s of miles to the London parks, but would Londoners' do the same? I can't imagine many people beyond Manchester traveling to a park in Scotland in much the same way that Oakwood doesn't get a lot of English trade.
 
Tim said:
Another disadvantage a Scottish park might have is peoples willingness to travel. Towers get a lot of Scottish guests and its not uncommon to have people travel 100s of miles to the London parks, but would Londoners' do the same? I can't imagine many people beyond Manchester traveling to a park in Scotland in much the same way that Oakwood doesn't get a lot of English trade.
Click to expand...

I suppose that's very much dependant on what's on offer.

I'm pretty sure if something like Universal IOA was built in Scotland, people would travel. If it was like Oakwood where most of the park could be done in a morning then no, people wouldn't bother.

With the standard being set so low in the U.K at the moment, I don't think it would take much to entice people from London.
 
Locating a Universal style resort in Scotland just wouldn't make sense. If it were a park on that scale, it would have to be within easy reach of London to make it even remotely viable. Otherwise, it just wouldn't get the footfall needed to stay afloat.

Don't forget, Disneyland Paris is closer to London than the Scottish border and it's easier to reach by train. Any potential park on a "Universal" scale wouldn't just be taking on UK parks.

Enticing people away from London is like drawing blood from a stone at the best of times. Building the park in Scotland wouldn't help matters.
 
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