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John Wardley vs Derren Brown

Has Derren Brown surpassed John Warley?

  • Yes

    Votes: 2 4.7%

  • No

    Votes: 17 39.5%

  • It's an unfair comparison

    Votes: 24 55.8%
  • Total voters
    43
A

Altonadvocate1

TS Member
John Wardley - he's a legend having created some of AT most iconic attractions, not least the seminal Nemesis!

Derren Brown, the name behind Thorpe Parks new original headline attraction.

Who's the greatest.

In favour of JW - He is a giant of the theme park industry, having created some of the world's most iconic attractions in theme parks. With a background in the movie business he has brought the excitement and scale of the movies to a theme park near you.

And he created the seminal Nemesis!

Derren Brown - A hugely successful entertainer responsible for a string of sold our shows and TV specials. A man who puts a mature and contraversial spin on everything he does. A man who can undoubtedly entertain an audience, but whose alleged use of stooges creates controversy, that he revels in.

Is DB, just a figurehead?. Is he really the creative force behind DBGT? Did he have access to technologies that JW didn't have when he created Bubble works and Haunted House (the two closest attractions for comparion)?

I can't comment as I will not be riding DBGT until September, but there is only one way to settle this.

Fight!
 
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Did JW solely designed the rides or was he just part of a larger team and he was mainly the main figurehead? Reading his book suggest this to be the case.

The same goes for politicians and even TV magicians. They have a whole team behind them coming up with the ideas etc...

I never for one moment thought that DB was totally behind the DBGT. Again it could have been his team collaborating with Merlin team.

It's a bit like when you watch the x-factor or BGT, many of the acts are asked to appear on the program, they have pre-auditions and a select few are put in front of the celebrity judges. When they make it to the final, its the TV producers that produce the acts. There is no such thing as reality TV. It's not always what we are shown or told, sometimes it's about what we are not shown or told.

I let you into a little secret about myself, I spent over 30 years in the entertainment business as a sucessful Magician (now retired 8 years ago to look after my wife).

Roy :)
 
Altonadvocate1 said:
John Warley - he's a legend having created some of AT most iconic attractions, not least the seminal Nemesis!

Derren Brown, the name behind Thorpe Parks new original headline attraction.

Who's the greatest.

In favour of JW - He is a giant of the theme park industry, having created some of the world's most iconic attractions in theme parks. With a background in the movie business he has brought the excitement and scale of the movies to a theme park near you.

And he created the seminal Nemesis!

Derren Brown - A hugely successful entertainer responsible for a string of sold our shows and TV specials. A man who puts a mature and contraversial spin on everything he does. A man who can undoubtedly entertain an audience, but whose alleged use of stooges creates controversy, that he revels in.

Is DB, just a figurehead?. Is he really the creative force behind DBGT? Did he have access to technologies that JW didn't have when he created Bubble works and Haunted House (the two closest attractions for comparion)?

I can't comment as I will not be riding DBGT until September, but there is only one way to settle this.

Fight!
Click to expand...
being a bit biased there, aren't you?
 
RoyJess said:
Did JW solely designed the rides or was he just part of a larger team and he was mainly the main figurehead? Reading his book suggest this to be the case.

The same goes for politicians and even TV magicians. They have a whole team behind them coming up with the ideas etc...

I never for one moment thought that DB was totally behind the DBGT. Again it could have been his team collaborating with Merlin team.

It's a bit like when you watch the x-factor or BGT, many of the acts are asked to appear on the program, they have pre-auditions and a select few are put in front of the celebrity judges. When they make it to the final, its the TV producers that produce the acts. There is no such thing as reality TV. It's not always what we are shown or told, sometimes it's about what we are not shown or told.

I let you into a little secret about myself, I spent over 30 years in the entertainment business as a sucessful Magician (now retired 8 years ago to look after my wife).

Roy :)
Click to expand...

I think Merlin missed out there.

Could have been Royjess''s Ghost Train!
 
A man regarded as a legend in his field, who has dedicated decades of his life to the amusement industry. Widely credited with transforming Chessington and Alton Towers from bare bones amusement parks to fully fledged themed attractions and national success stories. Has a string of well-loved attractions to his name from immersive, theatrical dark rides to world leading, cutting edge roller coasters.

Vs.

A celebrity figurehead primarily brought in as a marketing gimmick. Has one attraction to his name that opened a matter of days ago and so far has received fairly mixed reviews.

This isn't a fair question really. Has Derren Brown surpassed John Wardely in the amusement industry? Of course not! Even if DBGT is the best ride in the world, DB has had nothing like the influence that JW has across his career. And I'm pretty sure this is a one off. I can't see DB giving up his successful career as a stage and screen magician to pursue designing rides full time.

As for pitching DB's entire career against JW's career, that just doesn't make sense. It's like asking if Neil Armstrong has surpassed Luciano Pavarotti.
 
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RoyJess said:
Did JW solely designed the rides or was he just part of a larger team and he was mainly the main figurehead? Reading his book suggest this to be the case.
Click to expand...
I think on projects like nemesis, (I've read the book too) he was very influential and worked largely without a team (varney did quite a bit in the project too, I think), whereas on the smiler, he did very little. He acted as a figurehead since the media already knew of "his" work. On most of his dark rides though, I believe he was constantly working with a team.

Derren Brown did work with a team on ghost train, I believe - but as its his name above the gates - he had the final say on what went in and what didn't. As a result, the ride reflects his style massively, which (for me personally) does not compliment the ride, sadly. Derren Brown has tried to implement his style of controversy, illusion, and storytelling, which unfortunately leaves most riders confused.

John wardley every time for me. His rides have made UK theme parks; where would chessington be if they hadn't found him? Just by looking at rides like haunted house, professor burp's bubbleworks, nemesis, air, or oblivion, you can see how they have raised the standard of theme park attractions. Derren Brown's Ghost Train just didn't do the same.
 
JW is also a genius, he solved many problems by thinking outside the box that no one else has ever though of.

He solved the height restrictions by either building the rides down into the ground or fitting a double lift hill.

Dive machines were thought impossible, the reason is that the last carriage of the train would pull so much G over the hill that the rear train would come off the track, so he solved the problem by designing Oblivion carriages two rows deep 8 seats wide.

When the haunted house first debut with Phillip Schofield riding it for the press, it had software problems which needed replacing which was going to take weeks to rectify, this meant the cars kept stopping and a member of staff having to go around the whole ride to find the offending car to press the reset button. So John came up with the idea for a member of staff to ride each car dressed in a hooded robe, so if the ride was to stop, then they can then press the reset button in the car. Phillip was impressed with the ride and love the fact that there were a hooded reaper riding in each car.

...........

As for DB, I've only seen him live once, and yes as much as he uses basic traditional methods for his mind reading tricks, you can't deny that he is a true showman on stage.

As for the TV and entertainment world DB would get my vote
But as for theme parks, then JW has left a lasting legacy to be very proud of and it will take a few decades for anyone to ever catch up with him let alone surpass him.

:)
 
This seems to be more of a general discussion about the two as entertainers than anything really related to Alton Towers so I've moved the thread to Corner Coffee.

:)
 
I find John Wardley fascinating. His passion and drive for creating a theme and not just a ride always shone through, especially when you watch the old documentaries and read his book. A true genius in my opinion.
 
Gosh, I haven't yet experienced DBGT but I do have a fair bit to say about this, er, 'discussion'.

If Derren Brown was to consistently design new inventive attractions for theme parks over at least a 20 year period then yes, he would be comparable to John Wardley. However Derren isn't, because he's only had one ride that has been opened less than a week. And, whilst the ride does offer a new height of innovation, it has not earnt the respect John's rides have and is not deserving of it for at least a decade. There is also the fact that today's technology, demands and audiences are very different to what John would have experienced during the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s, or just didn't exist at all. You can compare them as a way of showing how the industry has evolved from a constructive standpoint but pitting them together is very tenuous.

As for the men themselves, they're comparable in that they both use illusion and aim to entertain but for very different purposes. John is a concept designer/developer so using illusion based techniques, i.e. theming and special effects, is a huge part of the job. He intentionally wants to immerse you in the bulk of his rides and create an escapist space. Meanwhile Derren is a mentalist-illusionist. He uses psychological skills to actively debunk perpetuated spiel like 'mind control' and the supernatural, shows you how the tricks work and tells you to pay attention. It's just all cleverly dressed in a showman fashion but whether his debunking, rationalist style works in ride format is a different piece of business altogether.
 
Derren Brown - apparent illusionist/magician making a one off ride experience.

John Wardley - A man dedicating his life to ride attractions and designing some of the best coasters?

Pretty simple.
 
Who is the best Actor - Leonardo Dicaprio or one of the extras seen in last nights Coronation Street who looked shocked at a revelation revealed in the Rover's Return?

#toughone
 
Spike said:
Who is the best Actor - Leonardo Dicaprio or one of the extras seen in last nights Coronation Street who looked shocked at a revelation revealed in the Rover's Return?

#toughone
Click to expand...
The extra. Obviously.
 
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