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Potential New Universal UK Park

venny said:
I’m sure Comcast will have done their market research before dropping a sizeable sum on the land acquisition.

With respect, if they’re fairly confident it’ll work, I’ll trust their research over your hunch.
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Did you trust the market research that went into the Paramount park/ London resort?

We’ll see what happens, but a Universal resort was planned in Essex in the 90s which fell through and the Paramount park fell through. There’s a reason why these projects keep failing to come to fruition. Obviously I’d love it if this resort did happen, but I’ll be amazed if it does.

Let’s check back in ten years and if it has happened I’ll buy you all a pint.
 
BigT said:
Isn’t Luton more of a hub for EasyJet? Not that it makes much difference, location wise it’s hard to see a better one in the UK.

I think as competition for DLP it makes perfect sense, it will take some visitors away from AT but I would see this park as more of an international attraction rather than competition just for UK parks.
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Yeah true, it's deffo's Easyjet's turf but you get the point :p
 
Enter Valhalla said:
Did you trust the market research that went into the Paramount park/ London resort?

We’ll see what happens, but a Universal resort was planned in Essex in the 90s which fell through and the Paramount park fell through. There’s a reason why these projects keep failing to come to fruition. Obviously I’d love it if this resort did happen, but I’ll be amazed if it does.

Let’s check back in ten years and if it has happened I’ll buy you all a pint.
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Deal!

I think the reasons it won't happen (and the other parks you listed) aren't because of climate or lack of tourism in the region, they're due to planning regulations and logistics, which i don't think anywhere here is seriously disputing. Objectively it's a great location for a Universal theme park and if one appeared there tomorrow i have no doubt it would be successful.
 
I see a huge difference vs how London Resort played out. LR shouted to the press from the word go. They went down the route of signing up a load of big IPs to attract media attention and to hopefully attract the financing to fund the project. All that was done without actually buying much of the land required in the first place. Take a look back at that topic and how things played out, and there were just carefully worded statements put out to make out that things were proceeding, when it was clear in the background they were just racking up a lot of debt without anything actually tangible being done.

Universal on the other hand have a proven track record in operating theme parks and no doubt have the cash/financing in place ready to go. As a result I would be much more minded to trust the research they've put into location than London Resort's work. They attempted to go under the radar and even when they were found out haven't come out with a load of flashy concept art or feed buzz phrases like "UK's Disneyland" to the press.

I have far more confidence in them making a go of this than I ever did from London Resort. But, as I've mentioned multiple times in this topic I still have reservations on whether this is the location or one of many. I agree planning issues like transport, community objection and such are going to be the issues for this project, it's just whether they have the will or want to invest the time to overcome them. That'll no doubt come out throughout the lengthy planning and design process.

It's easy to get carried away with your enthusiast head on, while it's equally as easy to be a pessimist over the whole thing too after being burned multiple times over the years. It's all about striking a balance between the two :)
 
Enter Valhalla said:
Did you trust the market research that went into the Paramount park/ London resort?

We’ll see what happens, but a Universal resort was planned in Essex in the 90s which fell through and the Paramount park fell through. There’s a reason why these projects keep failing to come to fruition. Obviously I’d love it if this resort did happen, but I’ll be amazed if it does.

Let’s check back in ten years and if it has happened I’ll buy you all a pint.
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There's some key differences this time though.

Firstly the land is classed as brownfield land and has already been granted permission to be built on multiple times already in the past and it's been funding issues rather than planning issues preventing any progress. Funding won't be an issue here with it being Universal.

Secondly there seems to be overwhelming support from local government with this project. That's a huge plus.

Finally transport links and road infrastructure is definitely better than the previous site. It's close enough to London to attract tourism but far enough away not to have to worry about the M25 etc.

It might fall through as Universal might not see it as financially viable but I think if they do think it is, it will definitely happen personally.
 
Probably more for the London Resort topic than further discussion here. But in short, the final nail in the coffin was hammered into London Resort months (some would even say years!) ago. It was never going anywhere regardless of Universal coming on the scene - there's far too many hurdles to jump.

When your company is seeking a CVA despite having not built a thing and being sued by a major media conglomerate in Paramount - who in their right mind would work with them never mind provide finance?
 
I personally see big differences between the London Resort and this project. Or even the previous Universal proposal in Essex and this project.

Universal of the modern day are a highly respected brand name with a very good track record of building, financing and delivering large-scale theme park projects.

In hindsight (in hindsight for me, anyway) The London Resort was (is?) effectively a nameless entity promising dreams with no prior track record and no obvious way of delivering those dreams.

Even Universal back when they lodged the Essex proposal was a very different company to today; Universal Studios Florida hadn’t even opened at that point, so they were relative newbies to the game of building and delivering ground-up major theme parks. They did not hold the same clout and they did not have the same level of financial stability and proven track record of delivery that they do today.

Universal post-Comcast, and post-Potter, is a financial and professional behemoth of building theme parks that will most certainly have done their research and will have authority and command respect. They have successfully delivered and operated numerous theme parks around the world and they have undoubtably gained a lot of experience, good and bad, from this.

Comcast may have a lot of money, and I accept that the official line is that Universal are still assessing the feasibility of the project. But surely they wouldn’t buy nearly 500 acres of land in Bedfordshire if they didn’t have a damn good inkling that a theme park project there would at least be broadly feasible? Surely Comcast would still have done their research and at very least seriously considered the broad, surface-level feasibility of a project in the UK before buying all that land? They may not have considered every single final detail yet, and their assessment of the feasibility may well change once they have considered the finer details and hurdles like traffic, locals, and the UK planning system. But surely they wouldn’t have dropped money on all that land without at least doing a broad study of feasibility and scoping out whether there would be sufficient demand for a Universal theme park in the UK?

Also, there are notable differences in terms of the actual site compared to The London Resort or Universal’s Essex project.

To the best of my knowledge, the land was never actually acquired for The London Resort or Universal’s Essex project. LRCH and 80s Universal only ever said that they might buy the land in the future, but never actually got around to it for varying reasons. This time, Universal have actually purchased a substantial amount of land, so we’re arguably already a step ahead compared to where either of those projects ever got.

Furthermore, this site is a recently demolished industrial site that has already had business proposals approved on it in the past. The other two projects were either partially or fully on marshland, which would naturally have proven contentious from a biodiversity standpoint. From what I know about the site Universal have chosen, I don’t think there’s likely to be quite the same smorgasbord of biodiversity located there.
 
What "market research" are we talking about here? Do we mean the market research that is going on at the moment by Comcast to see if this is viable?

Jesus, they've only just bought the company that owns the land and we're already talking about what IP's they could possibly have and whether there will be annual passes or not as if it's some forgone conclusion!

Businesses don't buy land once everything is green lit. They buy and sell land all the time. It's not like Comcast went into their local branch of NatWest clutching their last 3 payslips to beg for a mortgage.

Even the statement they were forced to put out read like it was copy and pasted from a board room PowerPoint presentation discussing the pros and cons of various international options. If you don't believe Comcast themselves about how preliminary all this is, despite the fact they've made it clear in plain English, then please give me the long numbers on your bank cards and PIN numbers. I promise I'll do nothing sinister with them.
 
Matt.GC said:
What "market research" are we talking about here? Do we mean the market research that is going on at the moment by Comcast to see if this is viable?
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We’re talking about “market research” that Comcast would have undertaken prior to selecting the UK as a potential site. I get that they are still undertaking feasibility studies, but surely they would have done some degree of research and feasibility studies to even highlight the UK/Bedford as a potential site before buying all that land in the first place?

As much as you say that “companies buy and sell land all the time”, I doubt that Comcast would just buy a big 500-acre plot of land in Bedfordshire for fun without at least seriously considering a UK project and doing some degree of research beforehand. Yes, I get that the more nuanced feasibility studies aren’t complete yet and could yet deter Universal from building in Bedford, but surely Comcast wouldn’t have shortlisted the UK/Bedford and bought the land completely blind without at least considering factors like market demand and basic feasibility amongst others?

Also, I still think there’s every chance that Comcast are further along in the process than they’re letting on publicly. If the earlier Twitter post showing a rather official-looking preliminary concept image that’s alleged to be “at least 11 months old” is to be believed, then that would imply that Comcast are already a fair way along in the process and have certainly done their fair share of work and feasibility studies and such already.
 
Matt.GC said:
What "market research" are we talking about here? Do we mean the market research that is going on at the moment by Comcast to see if this is viable?

Jesus, they've only just bought the company that owns the land and we're already talking about what IP's they could possibly have and whether there will be annual passes or not as if it's some forgone conclusion!

Businesses don't buy land once everything is green lit. They buy and sell land all the time. It's not like Comcast went into their local branch of NatWest clutching their last 3 payslips to beg for a mortgage.

Even the statement they were forced to put out read like it was copy and pasted from a board room PowerPoint presentation discussing the pros and cons of various international options. If you don't believe Comcast themselves about how preliminary all this is, despite the fact they've made it clear in plain English, then please give me the long numbers on your bank cards and PIN numbers. I promise I'll do nothing sinister with them.
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Comcast/Universal will have course done some initial research in to potential sites before acquiring land. They’ll almost certainly have deemed the land suitable for what they would like to use it for, and now they have it they can do further feasibility studies regarding whether they’d be allowed to use it for this purpose, what the potential barriers are, what conditions there might be etc. All of this needs consultation with third party stakeholders.

The leaked blue sky concept was apparently about a year old, so I think that tells you they’ve been doing more than just acquiring some land.

It is of course at the early stages, likely conceptual rather than having any real detail. But I think it is fair to assume that they believe this would be a successful site for one of their parks.
 
I think what IP's they use will be of little importance to the market research. I'm sure they know that for something like this to be commercially viable and successful it will require huge IP's to draw in the punters.

I'd imagine in their market research they will try to gage whether a 365 days a year park in viable in a land that doesn't really do that right now. Not common outside of DLP in the entirety of Europe either.
Do enough people want it in the UK?
How much they can charge?
How much would a typical family spend per visit?
Could we get repeat custom?
Is there appetite for a Horror Nights experience?

I have zero worries about the IP's. They will be nationally and internationally well known I'm positive.
 
Matt.GC said:
What "market research" are we talking about here? Do we mean the market research that is going on at the moment by Comcast to see if this is viable?

Jesus, they've only just bought the company that owns the land and we're already talking about what IP's they could possibly have and whether there will be annual passes or not as if it's some forgone conclusion!
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get off peoples backs for being excited! this is probably the biggest news to come the UK theme park industry in decades
 
Talking of Scarefest, it'll be fascinating to see how Halloween Horror Nights would change scare events in the UK.

I might be in the minority but I found HHN to be massively overrated. Conga line mazes, usually giving book report style retelling of memorable movie scenes. I much prefer atmospheric events, and when Scarefest is at its best there's nothing more eerie than walking around the grounds at Alton and getting that genuine Haunted feel.

My hope is that introducing HHN has at least one of these two outcomes:
1. It encourages Alton to double down on the atmosphere and sell itself as the true haunting experience.
2. Universal do like Hong Kong Disneyland have done and adapt their Halloween event to make it a more unique experience. Keep the IPs and impressive set-piece, but adapt the delivery.

I know it's very early to have this discussion. But regardless of it this project happens or not Merlin will want as much time as they can to prepare for it. We might see them experiment with the scare offerings over the coming years in anticipation of what could happen.
 
Honestly, I'd take the Kung Fu Panda ride as well. It could be a lot better, but even still it's of a scale and quality the UK don't even come close to in terms of Dark Rides.
I'd want them to do better, but as a base line it's acceptable.
 
Tim said:
Honestly, I'd take the Kung Fu Panda ride as well. It could be a lot better, but even still it's of a scale and quality the UK don't even come close to in terms of Dark Rides.
I'd want them to do better, but as a base line it's acceptable.
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Personally, money doesn’t immediately make great dark rides. The kung fu panda one is so s l o w. Needs much better pacing. And effects. Dark rides are telling an exiting story through sets and effects. Like the Jurassic park one. I don’t even think the show building for that one is huge either.
 
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