I'm not sure how this wouldn't also be of national significance given the value it'll add through tourism?
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Potential New Universal UK Park
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GooseOnTheLoose
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Is any other theme park, or leisure project, an interest of national significance?
The Co-Op Live, for example, which has recently opened in Manchester hasn't been in receipt of national government tax breaks, or infrastructure assistance. It generates a lot of revenue through tourism, or certainly will do.
It's about fairness, competition and the national interest. I understand that as enthusiasts we really want this to happen, but we also need to realise that Comcast is a commercial entity with a vested interest in making this a reality. If they're going to walk away, because they don't want to fund a few roads or build a train station, then they never really wanted to be here in the first place. It's a literal drop in the ocean for them, compared to what they stand to make.
Yes Bedford, the surrounding businesses and the UK government stand to take a decent chunk of revenue if this project goes ahead, but you know who stands to make the most out of all of this? Comcast.
What infrastructure assistance would the Co-Op Live need in an already built-upon area, serviced by a tram service at Etihad Campus which was partly built with public money? And of course Comcast are due to make the most money out of this, it's their theme park? That doesn't mean that we shouldn't help with infrastructure for what would benefit the country economically through a massive the tourist draws for the entire continent.
That article is also written seemingly as an outrage piece that pretends that giving tax incentives is completely out of keeping with the rest of our economy and offers zero benefit for anybody other than the (in this case foreign) corporations in question. It's the reason we have the biggest film industry outside of Hollywood and why it continues to grow in size?
Matt N
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The difference with this compared to, say, Alton Towers is that this has the potential to pull millions and millions of people from potentially all over the continent.
If this is like DLP or the Universal parks in Florida, it could potentially get 10 million guests per year once it's bedded in a bit. That's on a completely different scale to any other theme park, or dare I say tourist attraction, in this country. Even the most visited museums in London don't attract 10 million guests per year. The tourism and tax implications are potentially huge for all involved.
There is precedent for this sort of thing getting tax relief and incentives. As said, the French bent over backwards to build DLP. The UK government also lent considerable subsidy to the Millennium Dome, if I'm not mistaken, to build similar infrastructure to the site and help regenerate the surrounding Greenwich area. This would be a highly significant project for this country, and would be absolutely huge for a number of industries. As well as tourism, it would also be absolutely massive for the UK's construction industry; it would likely be one of the biggest UK construction projects of recent times.
If this is like DLP or the Universal parks in Florida, it could potentially get 10 million guests per year once it's bedded in a bit. That's on a completely different scale to any other theme park, or dare I say tourist attraction, in this country. Even the most visited museums in London don't attract 10 million guests per year. The tourism and tax implications are potentially huge for all involved.
There is precedent for this sort of thing getting tax relief and incentives. As said, the French bent over backwards to build DLP. The UK government also lent considerable subsidy to the Millennium Dome, if I'm not mistaken, to build similar infrastructure to the site and help regenerate the surrounding Greenwich area. This would be a highly significant project for this country, and would be absolutely huge for a number of industries. As well as tourism, it would also be absolutely massive for the UK's construction industry; it would likely be one of the biggest UK construction projects of recent times.
GooseOnTheLoose
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The world's biggest film industry is Bollywood, and has been since 2004. Second is Nollywood (Nigeria), third is Hollywood (in some places considered second), and fourth is Cinema of China. We come fifth, if we're being generous.
KolonelKlink
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The staunchly Conservative-leaning Express would be spitting feathers if the lack of tax incentives meant Comcast pulled out, accusing Labour of squandering a massive investment opportunity - it’s an excuse to have a pop at the government.
Coop Live is expected to generate around £1.5 billion for the economy. Contrast that with Universal, with the impact assessment suggesting a net economic contribution to UK PLC of £50 billion. It blows any other leisure project, or the Google data centres you mention for that matter, out of the water in terms of its importance for growth, job creation and tax revenue plus the ripple effect through the supply chain.
The Treasury putting forward some cash to help get the infrastructure built is a savvy move to get the deal done, and I don’t say that as an enthusiast, it’s sensible economics - the tax yield will far, far outweigh the outlay. You clearly have moral objections to tax breaks but without them, Britain wouldn’t have much of a creative sector - and ours is the envy of the world.
Sorry I meant in terms of studio space but point taken. We're a massive country for film production but our film industry itself isn't top two for revenue -- regardless, it's tax incentives that have created that hotspot for production and which have created thousands of jobs and generated billions every year.
GooseOnTheLoose
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Great, wonderful. The data centre was entirely hypothetical. Comcast can still make the development, and continue with the programme without state aid. I understand that it's beneficial to the Treasury for the project to happen here, but in reality it's not going to fault at the finish line (at this point) without the incentives. If Comcast weren't keen, eager, or willing in the first instance, they wouldn't have bought the land, they wouldn't have publicly announced, they wouldn't have made it a big deal. The ball is in our court, not theirs and now we're calling the shots.
Realistically they're not going to go to any other European nation for all of the reasons we've waxed lyrical in this thread. Native English speakers, world tourism destination, colonialism, soft power, lack of a serious competitor. France, Germany and Spain are off the table, the other European nations would be grateful, but not as beneficial for Comcast.
Our creative sector is good, but it's not the envy of the world. I generally despise jingoism, or patriotic feelings, so perhaps I'm biased here. We are good, were very good in certain regards, but we're not the best and our soft cultural power has been weaning over the past two decades. The cultural power/influence of the east, with Japan and China already outweighs ours. We also consistently play second fiddle to the US. We're a good factory source for raw talent, but we don't lead the projects.
Tax incentives are industry wide. Netflix, Warner Bros. Discovery, Disney, BBC Studios, heck even Comcast get the same breaks. What we're proposing here isn't the same. This is the equivalent of the giving a single Premier League football club a massive tax bonus, incentive or a direct train route to their stadium. That single club will generate lots of revenue for the treasury, tourism too, but it's anti-competitive for the other teams in the league, and arguably not in the tax payer's best interest.
If Universal want to operate here then that's wonderful. They can play by the same rules as everyone else does, and if the state wants to help Universal, well it can also help Merlin, Paulton's, Looping, Blackpool and Flamingo too, via industry tax breaks. Not by preferential treatment to one corporate body.
Alton towers isn’t offering to stump up 4 billion dollars in all fairness are they. Alton towers and Merlin are tight.
This decision isn’t anticompetitive. In fairness it’s pro competition and good for business, Merlin have to big of a foothold in this country and they need some healthy competition.
Compete or leave. Their decision.
We either bend or we break. I’d rather we bend and they build here than them abandoning plans and they build in France/Germany or Spain.
Because we all know if they abandoned plans here the headlines would be ‘labour didn’t do this’ or ‘brexit did that’ because that’s exactly how our press work.
We scratch their back, they scratch ours. That’s business.
They are a multi billion dollar company and with that comes power and leverage whether we like it or not. We’re not the US, we don’t have the ability to pass on projects like this, not anymore.
Universal setting up shop here potentially means millions more tourists visiting the UK year on year.
Universal setting up shop here means thousands of direct jobs and thousands of indirect jobs which means more money for the treasury.
It cements ties with a behemoth company that has the ability to put this country on the map when it comes to tourism.
We can debate about what’s ‘fair’ but life isn’t fair is it. If we let this go we’d be idiots, beyond idiots, if we let this go this country is finished and it really would be like holding up a sign saying ‘closed for business’.
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Agreed
Also worth mentioning the government needs to consider how much it will get back
GooseOnTheLoose
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If this is truly about increasing tourism spend in this country, and supporting competition between private enterprise, the government would be in a far better position cutting the VAT rate for hospitality, holiday accomodations and attractions. This would promote spending across the market, far in excess of what one singular project could generate alone, and would spread it among all players.
You'd be supporting large players like Merlin, Blackpool or Looping, but also your local pubs, restaurants and theatres. The cut would also benefit Universal, if they wanted to play here, and would likely balance out the need to build their infrastructure support for them.
It's not without precedent, with VAT being decreased to as low as 5% during COVID, before being increased back to 20% in 2022.
Central London Alliance calls for government to cut VAT for hospitality, tourism and leisure - City AM
Central London Alliance (CLA) calls on the Government to address the UK’s lack of competitiveness on the global tourism market, beginning with a cut to VAT for the hospitality, tourism and leisure industries. Figures from the Office of National Statistics (ONS) show that visits to the UK...
www.cityam.com
Actually it's because of Brexit that this sort of thing can happen. The EU has strict rules about member states providing direct, or indirect, subsidies / aid for individual/singular commercial entities.
A notable theme park project, which fell foul of EU rules around state aid, was the ill fated Space Park Bremen in Germany. It was proposed to be the largest indoor theme park in Europe. The decision by the comission can be found here;
EUR-Lex - 52002XC1012(05) - EN - EUR-Lex
Considering that your namesake is the world's largest asset manager, with a valuation of over $11.5 trillion, your stance on this isn't particularly surprising.
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GooseOnTheLoose
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Universal are aware of the EU's rules on state aid, and that we are no longer restricted by them, which is why they're asking far more from us than they would an EU state member. It's another strong point in our favour that we don't have to concede on, they are extremely unlikely to go anywhere else.
They certainly wouldn't, and couldn't, get anywhere near the same sort of incentive deal that they're seeking from the UK if they did, with the other benefits that this country offers them.
I agree with what you’re saying, they should be doing that as well. Personally I’d dramatically increase the tax on alcohol sold in shops, then massively decrease taxes for alcohol sold in pubs, bars, nightclubs etc.If this is truly about increasing tourism spend in this country, and supporting competition between private enterprise, the government would be in a far better position cutting the VAT rate for hospitality, holiday accomodations and attractions. This would promote spending across the market, far in excess of what one singular project could generate alone, and would spread it among all players.
You'd be supporting large players like Merlin, Blackpool or Looping, but also your local pubs, restaurants and theatres. The cut would also benefit Universal, if they wanted to play here, and would likely balance out the need to build their infrastructure support for them.
It's not without precedent, with VAT being decreased to as low as 5% during COVID, before being increased back to 20% in 2022.
Central London Alliance calls for government to cut VAT for hospitality, tourism and leisure - City AM
Central London Alliance (CLA) calls on the Government to address the UK’s lack of competitiveness on the global tourism market, beginning with a cut to VAT for the hospitality, tourism and leisure industries. Figures from the Office of National Statistics (ONS) show that visits to the UK...
Actually it's because of Brexit that this sort of thing can happen. The EU has strict rules about member states providing direct, or indirect, subsidies / aid for individual/singular commercial entities.
A notable theme park project, which fell foul of EU rules around state aid, was the ill fated Space Park Bremen in Germany. It was proposed to be the largest indoor theme park in Europe. The decision by the comission can be found here;
EUR-Lex - 52002XC1012(05) - EN - EUR-Lex
eur-lex.europa.eu
Considering that your namesake is the world's largest asset manager, with a valuation of over $11.5 trillion, your stance on this isn't particularly surprising.
Get people into pubs and out of their homes, there’s a slogan there somewhere.
Like someone else said at least that’s a Brexit benefit.
I mean my opinion on this won’t change, I think we should be doing everything possible to get this park.
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Matt.GC
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I want it to be built, and I want my government to create the right conditions in which to make it happen. I'm sure that's one of the reasons some of us elected them.
It's an industry that the UK doesn't currently excell at, will create jobs, tourism, tax revenue, get infrastructure built, and have far reaching benefits.
You know something else the UK is crap at? Building electric cars. Tata, owners of Jaguar Land Rover, have invested heavily in UK car production in recent years, especially in the midlands (my car was built in Coventry). They've had a tough time recently, some of it their own making, some of it international events, with a huge dollop of UK political instability for good measure. The UK has a struggling car industry and it lags behind other developed nations when it comes to battery production.
Yet an enormous battery plant is being built near Puriton in Somerset. BBC News - Jaguar Land Rover owner confirms UK factory site
www.bbc.com
Not so exciting when you're a theme park Thoosie, but very exciting if you're a battery Thoosie. The land mass this thing will take up is huge. It's of significant national importance, and is a lifeline for a section of the national economy. Thousands of jobs depend on it (which will likely be higher skilled and higher paid that Comcast will be providing). It cannot be underestimated how important, in fact a lifeline, this project is for the UK economy.
A desperate, failing, outgoing government offered cash incentives and brokered a deal to get it built. Tata Motors are footing a £4bn bill, and will be investing in further improvements to M5 J23 and other local transport improvements, alongside Morrisons (who operate a large distribution centre opposite), with EDF Energy and China General Nuclear Power Corporation (who are currently building Hinckley Point C).
Now imagine if Nissan, already invested in the UK for some time operating out of Sunderland, are expected to pay higher taxes and operate under different legal frameworks? Nissan are proposing a new plant in Northumberland and should by rights expect similar treatment to some degree.
This would likely be the same for Merlin. They are listed here, already trade here, pay their taxes here, employ people, and contribute to the UK economy. They have every right to expect the government to treat them fairly, acknowledge their contribution to the country, and operate a level playing field.
Take your Thoosie hat off for a minute. As exciting a boon as this bizarre Comcast proposal is, the government has far more things to consider than simply just bending over backwards so that we can all visit Universal and ride coasters. Battery plants may not sound as exciting, there are plenty of other industries that also need to benefit from a political environment that encourages investment. The government will mostly look at this project as they will any other of a similar scale.
It's an industry that the UK doesn't currently excell at, will create jobs, tourism, tax revenue, get infrastructure built, and have far reaching benefits.
You know something else the UK is crap at? Building electric cars. Tata, owners of Jaguar Land Rover, have invested heavily in UK car production in recent years, especially in the midlands (my car was built in Coventry). They've had a tough time recently, some of it their own making, some of it international events, with a huge dollop of UK political instability for good measure. The UK has a struggling car industry and it lags behind other developed nations when it comes to battery production.
Yet an enormous battery plant is being built near Puriton in Somerset. BBC News - Jaguar Land Rover owner confirms UK factory site
Tata confirms Somerset will host £4bn battery factory
It is predicted the huge factory will create 4,000 jobs and many more in the supply chain.
www.bbc.com
Not so exciting when you're a theme park Thoosie, but very exciting if you're a battery Thoosie. The land mass this thing will take up is huge. It's of significant national importance, and is a lifeline for a section of the national economy. Thousands of jobs depend on it (which will likely be higher skilled and higher paid that Comcast will be providing). It cannot be underestimated how important, in fact a lifeline, this project is for the UK economy.
A desperate, failing, outgoing government offered cash incentives and brokered a deal to get it built. Tata Motors are footing a £4bn bill, and will be investing in further improvements to M5 J23 and other local transport improvements, alongside Morrisons (who operate a large distribution centre opposite), with EDF Energy and China General Nuclear Power Corporation (who are currently building Hinckley Point C).
Now imagine if Nissan, already invested in the UK for some time operating out of Sunderland, are expected to pay higher taxes and operate under different legal frameworks? Nissan are proposing a new plant in Northumberland and should by rights expect similar treatment to some degree.
This would likely be the same for Merlin. They are listed here, already trade here, pay their taxes here, employ people, and contribute to the UK economy. They have every right to expect the government to treat them fairly, acknowledge their contribution to the country, and operate a level playing field.
Take your Thoosie hat off for a minute. As exciting a boon as this bizarre Comcast proposal is, the government has far more things to consider than simply just bending over backwards so that we can all visit Universal and ride coasters. Battery plants may not sound as exciting, there are plenty of other industries that also need to benefit from a political environment that encourages investment. The government will mostly look at this project as they will any other of a similar scale.
More news -
Originally posted on Facebook but then posted on the universal resorts forum.
The posts relate to multiple job listings that have been posted (but not yet open) and they cover a number of positions. Interestingly they’re marked as Expat roles but they don’t name a specific location like other Expat roles.
Facebook link -
From: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/qHrouRo9QWebmMvC/?mibextid=K35XfP
Not sure if anybody has looked at Universal’s job vacancies lately but there is roughly 10 jobs advertised as Expat but they are not currently recruiting to. But there is one in particular that has an interesting job scope.
‘This is what it says - Individual will be responsible for developing detailed estimates to support the submittal and approval process for all major capital projects that are managed by Universal Creative. Projects will range from $5-500 million for individual facilities, hotels, and attractions, and up to $1-2 billion for International Theme Park development. In addition, this individual will be responsible for the development of a comprehensive database from the past projects to assist in the improvement of the accuracy of our project budgeting on all projects.
The job title is - Director, Estimating (Expat)
What’s people’s thoughts on this? Do them figures look enough for a theme park build?’
One of the job roles in question -
jobs.universalparks.com
Universal forum link -
Post 2871.
Seems like there’s a very good chance they are for the park here in this UK with a location not being named and the job not yet being open.
Originally posted on Facebook but then posted on the universal resorts forum.
The posts relate to multiple job listings that have been posted (but not yet open) and they cover a number of positions. Interestingly they’re marked as Expat roles but they don’t name a specific location like other Expat roles.
Facebook link -
From: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/qHrouRo9QWebmMvC/?mibextid=K35XfP
Not sure if anybody has looked at Universal’s job vacancies lately but there is roughly 10 jobs advertised as Expat but they are not currently recruiting to. But there is one in particular that has an interesting job scope.
‘This is what it says - Individual will be responsible for developing detailed estimates to support the submittal and approval process for all major capital projects that are managed by Universal Creative. Projects will range from $5-500 million for individual facilities, hotels, and attractions, and up to $1-2 billion for International Theme Park development. In addition, this individual will be responsible for the development of a comprehensive database from the past projects to assist in the improvement of the accuracy of our project budgeting on all projects.
The job title is - Director, Estimating (Expat)
What’s people’s thoughts on this? Do them figures look enough for a theme park build?’
One of the job roles in question -
Director, Estimating (Expat) – Universal Creative – 619004 -
Search jobs at Universal Parks & Resorts, Universal Orlando, Universal Studios Hollywood, or Universal Creative. Apply today!
jobs.universalparks.com
Universal forum link -
Post 2871.
Seems like there’s a very good chance they are for the park here in this UK with a location not being named and the job not yet being open.
GooseOnTheLoose
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More news -
Originally posted on Facebook but then posted on the universal resorts forum.
The posts relate to multiple job listings that have been posted (but not yet open) and they cover a number of positions. Interestingly they’re marked as Expat roles but they don’t name a specific location like other Expat roles.
Facebook link -
From: https://www.facebook.com/share/p/qHrouRo9QWebmMvC/?mibextid=K35XfP
Not sure if anybody has looked at Universal’s job vacancies lately but there is roughly 10 jobs advertised as Expat but they are not currently recruiting to. But there is one in particular that has an interesting job scope.
‘This is what it says - Individual will be responsible for developing detailed estimates to support the submittal and approval process for all major capital projects that are managed by Universal Creative. Projects will range from $5-500 million for individual facilities, hotels, and attractions, and up to $1-2 billion for International Theme Park development. In addition, this individual will be responsible for the development of a comprehensive database from the past projects to assist in the improvement of the accuracy of our project budgeting on all projects.
The job title is - Director, Estimating (Expat)
What’s people’s thoughts on this? Do them figures look enough for a theme park build?’
One of the job roles in question -
Director, Estimating (Expat) – Universal Creative – 619004 -
Search jobs at Universal Parks & Resorts, Universal Orlando, Universal Studios Hollywood, or Universal Creative. Apply today!
Universal forum link -
Post 2871.
Seems like there’s a very good chance they are for the park here in this UK with a location not being named and the job not yet being open.
It's a generic corporate position, with oversight for "all major capital projects that are managed by Universal Creative". Whilst this would eventually include the proposed UK development, if it goes ahead, it's not limited to or specific to it.
The individual will be responsible for estimating all major capital projects worldwide.
From the job description:
The reason why no specific expat location is given, is because this position will be throughout the whole group.