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Potential New Universal UK Park
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
Shaggy_Dog_
TS Member
A massive amount of tourists travel to Windsor Castle and that is probably a similar comparison in terms of a journey. It’s going to be well connected, and be a resort in itself with hotels and plenty of quality accommodation around it. And Alton Towers is 115 miles away from it (and that does feel like it’s in the middle of nowhere) so I’m not sure why you think this park would be too close to it. Universal aren’t stupid, they’ve very specifically bought land in this location because they believe it’s the best place for them, and they’ve stated that it’s relative proximity to both London and an airport (Luton) were major factors in that decision. Absolutely people will travel to go and visit a Universal Park and it certainly won’t be that difficult to get to.
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Benjsh
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Steel Vengeance
We only have 1 child but fully expecting it to cost 10 or 11 grand for the 3 of us in 2025.
It's ridiculous really for a two week holiday but it is what it is.
Matt.GC
TS Member
The only thing that's changed since the start of this thread is that Universal have confirmed what was already suspected. Whilst I agree that it's more realistic than London Resort ever was, and that the location is pretty much a perfect choice, there's still no smoking gun proof that this will ever get off the ground much more than there was on page one.
The severe uphill battle that such a proposal faces to get spades in the ground still exists and hasn't changed. Read what Universal have said again and they couldn't spell it out more clearly with their caution. They're in the extremely early stages of exploration. It's quite easy for a business with such deep pockets to buy land and flog it on, not at a loss as has been suggested, but actually for a profit. In fact, I don't see a single reason why you wouldn't do that. If you find an ideal site and have the means to buy, you snap it up for cheap whilst the legal teams do the due diligence. If it doesn't stack up, you flog it. They've only come out now because they've been caught red handed. People seriously need to calm down to avoid later disappointment.
Regarding "competition", it seems like discussion is being compared to switching broadband providers or buying a car. It's nowhere near as simple as that. Towers and Universal parks operate in quite different markets. They're not in the same league. Where there is competitive overlap, the notion of Merlin "upping their game" is rediclous. There's no way they would suddenly start investing £millions into Towers just to keep up with the Jones's. They'd likely accelerate their current downgrading of Towers to keep costs down and offer a lower priced alternative.
I find it bizzare that the massive cut backs in the wake of the Smiler crash, some of which remain to this day, are frequently excused, yet there's a hope that that'll respond to a possible competitive hit differently? That's a complete contradiction.
The severe uphill battle that such a proposal faces to get spades in the ground still exists and hasn't changed. Read what Universal have said again and they couldn't spell it out more clearly with their caution. They're in the extremely early stages of exploration. It's quite easy for a business with such deep pockets to buy land and flog it on, not at a loss as has been suggested, but actually for a profit. In fact, I don't see a single reason why you wouldn't do that. If you find an ideal site and have the means to buy, you snap it up for cheap whilst the legal teams do the due diligence. If it doesn't stack up, you flog it. They've only come out now because they've been caught red handed. People seriously need to calm down to avoid later disappointment.
Regarding "competition", it seems like discussion is being compared to switching broadband providers or buying a car. It's nowhere near as simple as that. Towers and Universal parks operate in quite different markets. They're not in the same league. Where there is competitive overlap, the notion of Merlin "upping their game" is rediclous. There's no way they would suddenly start investing £millions into Towers just to keep up with the Jones's. They'd likely accelerate their current downgrading of Towers to keep costs down and offer a lower priced alternative.
I find it bizzare that the massive cut backs in the wake of the Smiler crash, some of which remain to this day, are frequently excused, yet there's a hope that that'll respond to a possible competitive hit differently? That's a complete contradiction.
Themeparksandy1981
TS Member
I can’t see families of 4 spending £400 plus express passes if u want to do everything in a day, petrol, parking, food and maybe a overnight stay if it’s hours are gonna be like the Florida parks.
In total you’re looking at a minimum cost £600 going up to £1000.
Now Merlin could charge £100 a ticket by the time this opens but with the 2 for 1 tickets, petrol, parking and food it’s gonna cost roughly £350.
Dave
TS Founding Member
I don’t think the number of news outlets reporting is relevant, they are just picking up on earlier reports, that’s how the news works.
Bowser
TS Member
This is much more likely to be comparable to the Universal parks outside of Orlando though, where tickets are £40 a day, where you can ride everything without an express pass and where an overnight stay is only required for longer journeys.
Surprised people are criticising it as a location too. It really is about as good as you can get and arguably more accessible than any of the Merlin parks (excluding Heathrow which isn't particularly relevant imo). The St Pancreas direct link is massive, with potential walking distance at the other end.
Remember the Thamslink goes direct from Gatwick Airport to Bedford. It takes 2 hours, but atleast it's a one and done. So on the same line you have Luton Airport and St Pancras International for mostly European arrival and departures, and Gatwick with a more international contribution. Heathrow isn't too hard either. Just get the new Elizabeth line to Farringdon and then jump on the Thameslink to Bedford.
Dave
TS Founding Member
Agree on the likelihood and excitement front.
Don’t agree on the investment side for Merlin if this goes ahead. Leisure money is a luxury spend, people will choose how to spend that money carefully.
A universal park has an international audience which means it’s unlikely to add new attractions every year. Merlins only real option would be to add new attractions so that the domestic market is inclined to visit their parks rather than repeat visit the fancy Universal park that hasn’t changed since the previous season.
Asterix is again a case in point, at first it stagnated a bit with Disney but recently they have invested heavily to ensure the domestic market is attracted to the park.
Smiler was a different issue, no one was going to visit the park no matter what they did for the first few seasons, their only option was to control expenditure. The moment they thought the situation has changed they built Wicker Man to attract people back.
Mykeprime
TS Member
I commute back and forth to London and am not far from the proposed site. It'd be a 1hr from St Pancras on a normal day. Alton on the other hand is a hefty drive from here. I think it's a decent amount of space between the two
Skyscraper
TS Member
- Favourite Ride
- Nemesis
This could also finally give Towers a kick up the backside in regards to Scarefest. Halloween Horror Nights is one of most highly rated scare events around, so if this new park had it's own version I wouldn't be surprised if people chose it over Scarefest. That would force Towers to rethink Scarefest big time.
AirFAN
TS Member
I live about a mile away from the proposed site. It was exceptionally strange to be watching Theme Park Stop's video about the development (I watch their content regularly to keep to up to date with Epic Universe) and to see my house in the aerial view of the proposed site.
This site has been earmarked for development for I'd say the last 10 years. Several projects have been floated and never come to fruition - notably NIRAH - an aquarium on the scale of something like the Eden Project (you can read more about that here).
Universal will be mainly concerned with the transport infrastructure. Looking at the above map, I imagine the A421 will have to be upgraded (currently, it can be hellish during rush hour traffic).
The Marston Vale line will need significant improvements. The rail stock currently used on it is outdated and the line has frequently been out of action for passenger use. Train frequency in the past has been 1 per hour although there are plans to improve this to every 20 minutes in the future (I don't know why because there isn't current passenger demand to warrant this).
There are also houses along Manor Road. You'll notice a small rectangle of land left of the MANOR ROAD text on the above image that Universal hasn't acquired - this is a row of houses. I know someone who lives in one of these houses, she says attempts have been made for months to buy them out - she's received letters asking to buy her property for a 'development' (no specifics as to what), it was assumed by the locals that it was going to be a housing estate. She's said it's clear the company is desperate for the land, with one neighbour managing to negotiate more than double what their property is worth.
What is great for Universal is a new train station has been planned to be built on the Thameslink line (links directly to London and Luton Airport) close to the point where the line intersects the B530 - this station is to serve a new town (Wixams) that's being built which you can see to the right of this. This station was a selling point to those looking to move to the new town but it's development has been delayed for approximately the last 10 years. Interestingly, it appears that recently Bedford council are getting the wheels in motion in bringing it to fruition and there appears to be a lot more momentum in the project now (coincidence?).
During the last year Bedford council have announced a lot of significant road improvements for the area. Again, this could just be a coincidence.
This site has been earmarked for development for I'd say the last 10 years. Several projects have been floated and never come to fruition - notably NIRAH - an aquarium on the scale of something like the Eden Project (you can read more about that here).
Universal will be mainly concerned with the transport infrastructure. Looking at the above map, I imagine the A421 will have to be upgraded (currently, it can be hellish during rush hour traffic).
The Marston Vale line will need significant improvements. The rail stock currently used on it is outdated and the line has frequently been out of action for passenger use. Train frequency in the past has been 1 per hour although there are plans to improve this to every 20 minutes in the future (I don't know why because there isn't current passenger demand to warrant this).
There are also houses along Manor Road. You'll notice a small rectangle of land left of the MANOR ROAD text on the above image that Universal hasn't acquired - this is a row of houses. I know someone who lives in one of these houses, she says attempts have been made for months to buy them out - she's received letters asking to buy her property for a 'development' (no specifics as to what), it was assumed by the locals that it was going to be a housing estate. She's said it's clear the company is desperate for the land, with one neighbour managing to negotiate more than double what their property is worth.
What is great for Universal is a new train station has been planned to be built on the Thameslink line (links directly to London and Luton Airport) close to the point where the line intersects the B530 - this station is to serve a new town (Wixams) that's being built which you can see to the right of this. This station was a selling point to those looking to move to the new town but it's development has been delayed for approximately the last 10 years. Interestingly, it appears that recently Bedford council are getting the wheels in motion in bringing it to fruition and there appears to be a lot more momentum in the project now (coincidence?).
During the last year Bedford council have announced a lot of significant road improvements for the area. Again, this could just be a coincidence.
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Dave
TS Founding Member
I suspect this will take longer than 6 years. Major projects always do (example big new hospital extension in Leeds, when announced was going to open in 2027, now likely to be 2030 at the earliest)
Jb85
TS Member
They've probably known about this already for a while and suspect that why they are investing now. Although I'd say 10 years is more likely.
I live about 2 miles away from the site and the only areas that are "hellish" is the A6 roundabout, pretty much next to the land and the Black Cat roundabout, which is now getting considerable investment and work has started. The Marston Vale rail line is small fry compared to the mainline serving 2 airports direct and an international rail station. It's not perfect, but over the next few years it'll be up to the job. You mention Wixams Station, that's probably the main reason why this site has been chosen.
AirFAN
TS Member
I drive on the A421 daily to work and during rush hour it can be hellish. I can't see it being able to deal with the added demand that a property like Universal would bring. Even M1 Junction 13 (which was upgraded 5 years ago) is an absolute mess and frequently encounters tail backs on adjoining roads.
pluk
TS Member
The very fact that there is no meaningful competition is why they could have the response they did. They could accept a period of stagnation without the risk of investment that could have fallen flat and been wasted. This is different, this could lead to actual decline.
It's obviously more complex than choosing a utility provider, but there will always be a collective maximum spend on leisure from the public and you can bet Merlin will be worried. I'm sure some of that can be offset by an increase in general themepark tourism that would leak into Merlin, especially the southern parks, but it would be hard to see this as a possitive for them overall with their current model of marketing led mediocrity.
My biggest concern for our existing parks is how they respond. If it's a drive to actually be better then great. If it is a drive to fight IP with IP by plastering everything existing and new with them it will be a disaster.
AirFAN
TS Member
Always comes down to money and a willingness to spend. I don't think they should look to compete with Universal by bringing in IPs - it will never be executed well enough. Let Universal do Universal. Merlin should take a leaf out of Phantasialand's book.
I think the easy answer is to say Merlin just need to spend >insert exorbitant amount of money here< to get the parks up to a desirable standard. I can't imagine they will (I could be wrong).
I think generally they're awful because they build and forget. Nothing is maintained. Most things look dirty or dishevelled. I would forgive the parks for a lot if they were just clean/tidy as a bare minimum.
Surely it wouldn't cost that much more money to ensure future proofing is considered when they're in the design process (ease to clean/maintain) and to put plans in place to maintain rides/areas once they are constructed.