Ride Access Pass Systems and Disabled Access (pre 2024)

[tayspru]

I'm sure that there will be a facebook group or forum that will tell people how to answer the face to face questioning, no different to getting it in writing or not

Its much easier to tell when someone is blagging face to face. Given the level of questioning we experienced, and my Mum actually being a professional in the field of Special Education, nobody without genuine needs is blagging it over at the US parks . The U.K. and Merlin are very softly softly in their approach and it isn’t helping anyone

 

[tayspru]

Here in the UK, they are not allowed to question you about your disability, even in slightest. I know this as I have had help and legal advice before using the EASS (Equality Advisory Support Service)

I don’t think that’s the case across the board . I work for an airline and we regularly ask passengers how we can accommodate their needs if they board as a special assist passenger . We don’t ask what disability they may or may not have but we do ask what can we do to best help their needs . This wouldn’t be any different.

 

[monkeyboy]

I think the issue is with how may ppl can be added to the group/ carer list. It seems that the dda/rap priority (which I agree with) has turned into an able bodied with a gp sign off day out for the family.
What are the restrictions? Could I with an anxiety based medication subscribed for the last 6 years get an rap for my whole family on next visit?


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[imanautie]

I think the issue is with how may ppl can be added to the group/ carer list. It seems that the dda/rap priority (which I agree with) has turned into an able bodied with a gp sign off day out for the family.
What are the restrictions? Could I with an anxiety based medication subscribed for the last 6 years get an rap for my whole family on next visit?


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Yes, (and abled might be the better term there?)
Considering a member of this forum apparently managed to test Alton by just walking in and asking for rap without proof previously....
Whilst some would say that's good for legitimate people who forget it's not because it makes the system useless, heck Saturday I spent a long time in mutiny bay shoppe chatting with a certain staff member because everything had rediculously long rap queues.

 

[jon81uk]

The laws regarding disability are different over the pond compare to here in the UK. Companies here in the UK are not legally allowed to question people about their disability/medical conditions, they can get into a lot of trouble for doing so.

I don't think they can question people in the US either, as has been said the question is "how can we best accommodate you". Then the accommodations might be wheelchair/scooter rental, RAP type return time system or something more bespoke. It's not about "I have this condition" it is about "I need this adjustment".
and someone walking into guest services just stating "I cannot queue" would be ask why and what specific adjustment is needed". If it is standing for long periods that is the issue then a return type system isn't seen as the answer.

 

[RoyJess]

I don't think they can question people in the US either, as has been said the question is "how can we best accommodate you". Then the accommodations might be wheelchair/scooter rental, RAP type return time system or something more bespoke. It's not about "I have this condition" it is about "I need this adjustment".
and someone walking into guest services just stating "I cannot queue" would be ask why and what specific adjustment is needed". If it is standing for long periods that is the issue then a return type system isn't seen as the answer.

Yes I get what is being said, but I'm not going to get drawn into a conversation that is just going to go around in circles because with each response the goal post get moved.

Without proof of disability on paper, anyone can go into guest services and be ask "how can we best accommodate you" and with out proof, anyone can say that they can't queue and need RAP which will open it up to more abuse.

Also under the equality act, they can't discriminate between disable people, it has to be one rule for all

 

[jon81uk]

Yes I get what is being said, but I'm not going to get drawn into a conversation that is just going to go around in circles because with each response the goal post get moved.

Without proof of disability on paper, anyone can go into guest services and be ask "how can we best accommodate you" and with out proof, anyone can say that they can't queue and need RAP which will open it up to more abuse.

Also under the equality act, they can't discriminate between disable people, it has to be one rule for all

But again, it works in Florida and guests can't just say "I can't queue" it has to be a specific accommodation. So I can't stand all day (you need a wheelchair rental), or I get overwhelmed in a crowded queue and need to wait outside of it (you need timed return access pass).

 

[Craig]

I don't think @jon81uk is questioning what you're saying @RoyJess, he's more stating that getting a DAS card at Disney or similar in the US is not some sort of hard line of questioning which is being carried out each time.

I believe it's two questions are asked by Disney, something along the lines of what prevents you from using the usual queues and what can be done to help. That's not a difficult thing to get around for those who want to "blag" the system.

The reason Disney's process is much less visible than say Merlin's approach is because it's supported by the tech within the MyMagic+ platform, meaning return times are mandatory and most queuelines are increasingly becoming accessible.

 

[jon81uk]

I believe it's two questions are asked by Disney, something along the lines of what prevents you from using the usual queues and what can be done to help. That's not a difficult thing to get around for those who want to "blag" the system.

Yep but because the accommodations are enforced, you can't get round the return time system even if someone blags it they only gain the ability to wait outside of the queue for one ride at a time. As has been said if there is another attraction with a short wait there is nothing stopping them going and riding that while waiting virtually for the longer wait time but for many parents of children who struggle with waiting they need to do that to distract them anyway. For those that do blag it they do gain that ability to sort of fast pass an extra attraction but many are honest.

most queuelines are increasingly becoming accessible.

This is probably the biggest thing Alton need to consider, for those who cannot manage stairs but can wait (ie not autism or similar) then they should join the normal queue in a wheelchair or similar. Lots of smaller rides at AT have level queues I expect Gangsta Granny does due to the location too. That leaves the RAP return queue open for just those who cannot wait in the main queue.

 

[Skyscraper]

4. There is no way to tell when someone is using the main queue line that they are also a RAP user, I've seen RAP flitter between RAP and normal Queue lines to get in extra rides when they are timed out = Turns the RAP into F/T

This is the problem I have actually. I can get distressed in crowded places, which is why I qualify for the RAP. However, I am able to use stairs and stand for fairly long periods (Although I can get tired easily), so if a queue is walk-on or very short, I am able to use the main queue. (plus I like one-way systems, which doesn't help, and I like watching the rides going round)

I also have the issue of family depending on me getting the RAP (and essentially forcing me to get it) because I've needed it for a long time, even though I'm a lot better with queuing than I was a few years ago now. Part of that is I'm more sociable (I used to be really shy), so talking to people is a good way to pass the time. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place, so-to-speak.

Another thing is that my disabilities are "hidden"; you'd only know if I had a meltdown or you spotted my hearing aid. Because of this I hide my RAP wristband up my sleeve and only get it out when I need to show the host. That is the main reason I do so, not so I can use the main queue (although I will admit that is part of it).
Plus, I'm going soon with someone who's never been to towers before, so I want to use the main queues as much as possible in order to give them to full experience.

Also, when looking on Towers' app this morning I noticed that Thirteen's FastTrack queue splits off. I assume one side is the old single rider queue; if that's the case it would be great if ambulant RAP could use it now that FastTrack has returned to Thirteen. Can anyone confirm if that's what they've done?

 

[RoyJess]

I don't think @jon81uk is questioning what you're saying @RoyJess, he's more stating that getting a DAS card at Disney or similar in the US is not some sort of hard line of questioning which is being carried out each time.

I believe it's two questions are asked by Disney, something along the lines of what prevents you from using the usual queues and what can be done to help. That's not a difficult thing to get around for those who want to "blag" the system.

My initial response was because on the previous page there was talk about people obtaining RAP that probably shouldn't be and that in America they question the guest as oppose to having paper evidence.

There is a difference in asking "how can we help to accommodate you" with the view to improving accessibility as appose to asking the question to decide whether someone is entitle to RAP or not.

Jess and I had an incident a few years back where we were discriminated because of her disability. This was at an attraction (non theme park related) and we contacted the EASS who broke down our case into tiny bits and explained the law in very simple case what companies, member of public can and can't do as well as when it becomes the attraction responsibility or police matter . I still have the ref and very detailed notes from that. I just felt that I was being undermined despite having first hand experience and that this conversation was just going to go around in circles.

The reason Disney's process is much less visible than say Merlin's approach is because it's supported by the tech within the MyMagic+ platform, meaning return times are mandatory and most queuelines are increasingly becoming accessible.

I think that is the real key here. The RAP should be about accessibility and Disney treats it like on the basis it is about the accessibility. Unlike Merlin Parks which is has simple got out of hand and treated like a free fast track. Getting the time out right and ensuring that is not compromise is the key. Also why would you want to use the RAP at Disney, the queue lines are so immersive and well themed, why would you want to miss out of the experience of the main queue line?

 

[tayspru]

No - that comment about the well themed queues is just bizarre to me . RAP shouldn’t be a choice based on the themed experience , either you need the adjustment or you don’t , not picking and choosing .

I think the main takeaway is waving a doctors note or blue badge at an underpaid and possibly not extensively trained employee at the Merlin parks is not an effective system, and more specialised staff should handle RAP allocations.

This is a secondary problem to the timeouts which need to be filled out consistently. It does make me wonder whether it would make more sense for the RAP host to be at the entrance next to the queue time board, and then you come back after that time has passed. Get to WickerMan and the queue is advertised 90 minutes ? Then the host writes that time period and you come back in 90 minutes.

 

[Danscott22]

No - that comment about the well themed queues is just bizarre to me . RAP shouldn’t be a choice based on the themed experience , either you need the adjustment or you don’t , not picking and choosing .

I think the main takeaway is waving a doctors note or blue badge at an underpaid and possibly not extensively trained employee at the Merlin parks is not an effective system, and more specialised staff should handle RAP allocations.

This is a secondary problem to the timeouts which need to be filled out consistently. It does make me wonder whether it would make more sense for the RAP host to be at the entrance next to the queue time board, and then you come back after that time has passed. Get to WickerMan and the queue is advertised 90 minutes ? Then the host writes that time period and you come back in 90 minutes.

The issue with that is there's then potential for a longer wait for RAP users as opposed to the regular queue line. You'd be waiting 90 minutes, the trek back to the ride would add time on depending on how far you are away, and then what about other RAP parties doing the same so your wait is even longer? Also, the queue time could be advertised at 90, but only be 60, so you've suffered a 30 minute deficit already.

 

[Craig]

The trek back to the ride is for the guest to estimate, not for Towers to consider when they give you a RAP time.

A RAP guest a return time based on the current queue time, whether that's a little higher or lower for standard guests will no doubt equal itself out anyway as they can vary one way or the other, especially with downtime etc. I'd still like Towers to be better with issuing return times though, as I said earlier it's not good giving 20 RAP groups the same return time as they would all inevitably turn up at once and end up in a queue anyway. Spread them out a little and things will be a lot easier for everyone.

 

[jon81uk]

The issue with that is there's then potential for a longer wait for RAP users as opposed to the regular queue line. You'd be waiting 90 minutes, the trek back to the ride would add time on depending on how far you are away, and then what about other RAP parties doing the same so your wait is even longer? Also, the queue time could be advertised at 90, but only be 60, so you've suffered a 30 minute deficit already.

Disney's system as I understand it gives a return time of the standby queue less 10 minutes, to allow for the wait in the fastpass queue when you return. That seems fair to me.
The trek back to the ride is up to the guest to plan, they don't have to go very far away if they don't want to.

 

[spinba11]

One good thing about the DAS is it’s done on your park ticket/ magic band so there’s nothing extra to lose.

 

[Benzin]

Disney's best idea with the system in Florida is making every queue line accessible to those in wheelchairs and mobility scooters.

Doing this means that those who are actually using their RAP equivalent actually require it.

California parks it's hit and miss as obviously they haven't retrofitted some of the older attractions to suit. Though still being able to use FastPass on top of RAP was fairly interesting for me. If the pandemic hadn't have happened we would've invested in the pay extra to book on phone as well, if only to reduce having to try and navigate those fantastically well design and not cramped areas.

 

[spinba11]

There’s still 5 at Disney that aren’t wheelchair accessible
Star tours
Space mountain
Big thunder mountain
Spaceship earth
Smuggler run SRQ.

 

[RoyJess]

I can't see how making the main queue line wheelchair accessible going to help. The bulk of RAP users nowadays are those with hidden disabilities.

I've only ever visited Disneyland Paris. The last time that I visited was back in 2008. I have visited Disneyland Paris on several occasions and both on quiet and busy days. I once visited on a super busy day and all that I can say is how impressed I was with he efficiently of loading the rides and keeping the queue lines moving as quick as possible. Even just before you get to the loading station, you were sent down one of several queue depending on how many in your group. No single seat was left empty on the rides. Their attitude and ride access for disable guest was very welcoming and couldn't complain. This is the complete opposite to how Merlin Manage their queue lines and RAP. Get and keep the main queue lines moving, then you solve the problem for everyone.

 

[Skyscraper]

The entire Duel indoor queue line has been adapted to make it wheelchair accessible!

Unfortunately this does almost certainly mean that the slanted floor on the ramp will be gone.