[🌎 Universal GB] Impact on the UK market

[Matt.GC]

The only logical reason for Comcast to be bringing their cash to this country is that there is a market for what they are building.

They're baking and bringing along their own pie, hence why Merlin shouldn't be too worried about their existing budget brand pie, filled with sweepings off of the apple factory floor and then pushed through a mincer. It'll still be there to buy and pop in the microwave after Universal. Having tried the crispy buttery crust and chunks of Bramley in the Universal pie, Merlin may benefit from people seeking as similar an experience as practically possible but for a significantly lower price.

I really do fail to understand where all this "up their game" stuff comes from? I don't know a single industry in the history of the world under similar circumstances where this has been successful?

And even if it was, where on earth would Merlin raise the cash from? Who would invest in such a strategy? Would any poster on here? Of course you wouldn't.

 

[Hid]

The only logical reason for Comcast to be bringing their cash to this country is that there is a market for what they are building.

They're baking and bringing along their own pie, hence why Merlin shouldn't be too worried about their existing budget brand pie, filled with sweepings off of the apple factory floor and then pushed through a mincer. It'll still be there to buy and pop in the microwave after Universal. Having tried the crispy buttery crust and chunks of Bramley in the Universal pie, Merlin may benefit from people seeking as similar an experience as practically possible but for a significantly lower price.

I really do fail to understand where all this "up their game" stuff comes from? I don't know a single industry in the history of the world under similar circumstances where this has been successful?

And even if it was, where on earth would Merlin raise the cash from? Who would invest in such a strategy? Would any poster on here? Of course you wouldn't.

I do want more rides at their parks particularly Towers where I think it does need more experiences they have not had a new attraction that wasn't a replacement and increased capacity for a long time

 

[flyingguitar]

They're baking and bringing along their own pie, hence why Merlin shouldn't be too worried about their existing budget brand pie, filled with sweepings off of the apple factory floor and then pushed through a mincer. It'll still be there to buy and pop in the microwave after Universal. Having tried the crispy buttery crust and chunks of Bramley in the Universal pie, Merlin may benefit from people seeking as similar an experience as practically possible but for a significantly lower price.

I really do fail to understand where all this "up their game" stuff comes from? I don't know a single industry in the history of the world under similar circumstances where this has been successful?

I would counter this,

I think merlin will have to start investing primarily because there will be a really big comparison between universal and the merlin parks which will drive people away from the merlin parks, you may say they are creating a market but that will be made from the market merlin holds.

people will have a cheaper choice, lets say £40 to go to alton or £120 to go to universal, 3 times the price but if at alton you experience bad service, see some of the poorer quality areas (such as Gal, 13, etc) and if you are much easier to compare to the things from universal (higher quality rides, good customer service, longer opening hours) it becomes very easy to just not go to alton 3 times (do something else) and save for universal.

people will probably still go but I think a lot of people who are currently comming may decide to go to universal due to the higher quality theming, longer opening times etc

I have experience with this, my uncle went to florida (includes disney of course) before covid, when we left covid they wanted to do a theme park so went to thorpe (before they re-did big easy boulevard) and he said he would not go back because he said he found it very worn down, and didn't like it, and probably won't go back.


I think merlin would need to improve their offering, of course not to universals level but I would say the 1990's wardley era level (vampire, nemesis, hex etc)

 

[GooseOnTheLoose]

I don't know a single industry in the history of the world under similar circumstances where this has been successful?

Amusingly, the arrival of the streaming wars and the golden age of television hasn't forced Comcast/Universal to up their game with content for Sky (the prior incumbent).

 

[JT01]

I can gantree a lot of people once they have a taste of what a theme park like Universal will create they won't be that interested in going Alton towers. I can see AT pulling in more regional visitors and Universal will now draw in national visitors which I guess Alton Towers has been doing since the 90s

 

[The_bup]

When it comes to Merlin “upping their game”, I don’t mean building world class attractions and theming, just building a place that’s actually somewhat pleasing. It’s small things, covered queue lines, nice plants, supporting rides to help capacity and of course stopping ripping people off at times.

They just need to be a little more humble and a little more honest and stick to what they can do, it’ll go a long way.

While Universal will inevitably get very busy and have long waits and whatever, Merlin parks could provide maybe a less intense day out? Towers especially has a historical aspect that they just… ignore. They could easily break into the “culture” market if they tried a bit.

 

[Tim]

Opening hours is anouther good point. Once Universal open a park that's open from potentially as early as 8am and as late as 11pm at night (maybe even later during Halloween Horror Nights) it's going to be impossible for our current parks to get away with 10 till 4 openings.
When you think about it let's say that a ticket to Universal costs £100 and Alton £50 (both ignoring discounts). But the former is open 12+ hours and the latter only 6. That makes Universal already a better value proposition without even factoring in the quality of the rides.

 

[Matt.GC]

Amusingly, the arrival of the streaming wars and the golden age of television hasn't forced Comcast/Universal to up their game with content for Sky (the prior incumbent).

Well you joke, but indeed a good example.

Comcast could spend tonnes of cash improving Sky content. Or they could just broadcast their American stuff and continue BSkyB's business model. There's more broadband and streaming competition than they've ever had, but they're doing just fine as they are. No need for expensive productions.

I would counter this,

I think merlin will have to start investing primarily because there will be a really big comparison between universal and the merlin parks which will drive people away from the merlin parks, you may say they are creating a market but that will be made from the market merlin holds.

people will have a cheaper choice, lets say £40 to go to alton or £120 to go to universal, 3 times the price but if at alton you experience bad service, see some of the poorer quality areas (such as Gal, 13, etc) and if you are much easier to compare to the things from universal (higher quality rides, good customer service, longer opening hours) it becomes very easy to just not go to alton 3 times (do something else) and save for universal.

people will probably still go but I think a lot of people who are currently comming may decide to go to universal due to the higher quality theming, longer opening times etc

I have experience with this, my uncle went to florida (includes disney of course) before covid, when we left covid they wanted to do a theme park so went to thorpe (before they re-did big easy boulevard) and he said he would not go back because he said he found it very worn down, and didn't like it, and probably won't go back.

I think merlin would need to improve their offering, of course not to universals level but I would say the 1990's wardley era level (vampire, nemesis, hex etc)

Spend hundreds of millions to get anything close to 1990's levels you mean? For what return exactly? To try and compete with a company that isn't directly competing with you? Why?

I'm sure everything looks crap when compared to the First class offerings of Qatar, Etihad, and BA. People still fly Ryanair, easyJet and Vueling in droves though.

 

[flyingguitar]

Spend hundreds of millions to get anything close to 1990's levels you mean? For what return exactly? To try and compete with a company that isn't directly competing with you? Why?

hundreds of millions? it really wouldn't cost that much, my argument is essentially mostly going round fixing up the areas like they have with FV and any extra addition add them with a higher quality investment (like the wickerman).

the problem I was raising is that if people get a good comparison their minimum standards will rase, they will essentially realise the flaws more and expect more and expect it to be very well maintained, which AT has let some areas slip (e.g 13's station or galacticas tunnel:
(from towers times POV))

in addition guest experience could be improved, queues can be bad (the smiler), etc these things people will notice and not want to do as their minimums have been raised.

in other threads people have been saying about how x-sector, DF etc could do with a spruce up similar to FV I am essentially trying to say I think merlin will continue this at all of their parks (e.g big easy boulevard) so as people compare it to universal it dosn't fall bellow what the new minimum is.

I'm sure everything looks crap when compared to the First class offerings of Qatar, Etihad, and BA. People still fly Ryanair, easyJet and Vueling in droves though.

the differnce is you aren't paying for the flight, you are paying to get where that flight is going.

flights you can pay extra, or you can pay the minimum but you both get to the same location for the same holiday/business trip, etc

but with a theme park you can just not go to it, fancy adventure how about a hike, fancy thrill, high ropes, ziplines etc fun day with friends how about boot up the <insert game console> and play some multiplayer games for free at home there are plenty of alternatives.

 

[James]

Merlin doesn't need to spend hundreds of millions, but it will need to invest to get its current parks back to an acceptable standard. Alton Towers probably needs the most work out of all the parks, with a severe lack of flat rides and multiple areas that need major work.

I can see the primary impact of Universal on the Merlin parks will be things like food and beverage. When people realise you're getting cheaper and better quality food in a premium theme park, more will turn their nose up at food that is double the price and poor quality in your budget Merlin park.

 

[SuperMuscleMan]

If only Merlin had a example or past experience with how to give the public good value and ok quality food... Throw me back to the 90s please when the high street chains came in (with good themeing (Chessington especially)).

I really don't understand why they don't go back to that model. Look at how service stations have embraced them, once one got a high street chain the different brands fought each other to attach big well-known brands to their service stations and names.

 

[Jordan]

the differnce is you aren't paying for the flight, you are paying to get where that flight is going.

flights you can pay extra, or you can pay the minimum but you both get to the same location for the same holiday/business trip, etc

but with a theme park you can just not go to it, fancy adventure how about a hike, fancy thrill, high ropes, ziplines etc fun day with friends how about boot up the <insert game console> and play some multiplayer games for free at home there are plenty of alternatives.

Not to labour the point, but the airline comparison isn’t a bad one. There is a significant quality difference between flying F on BA versus the Middle East carriers - and the gradual demise in BA’s customer experience over the last ~15 years is borne of a similar investment posture to Merlin.

 

[Bowser]

Not to labour the point, but the airline comparison isn’t a bad one. There is a significant quality difference between flying F on BA versus the Middle East carriers - and the gradual demise in BA’s customer experience over the last ~15 years is borne of a similar investment posture to Merlin.

Not sure that’s a fair comparison as many of the Middle Eastern airlines were bankrolled by governments as part of a long term national strategy unrelated to their performance.

 

[flyingguitar]

Not to labour the point, but the airline comparison isn’t a bad one. There is a significant quality difference between flying F on BA versus the Middle East carriers - and the gradual demise in BA’s customer experience over the last ~15 years is borne of a similar investment posture to Merlin.

I don't think the theme park markets are similar to the flights markets.

yes BA and merlin may have had similar trends, but I am sure you could look at VW, or something like that and see similar trends.

the key difference is that flights are necessary and not the main point, going to a theme park isn't necessary and the main point,

if you want to go to new York, Caribbean, China etc you pretty much have to fly, the main experience you will want is the time after you land till the time you take off again.

some people will want more than a centimetre of leg space for the couple hours and be willing to pay for it, other people will only care about getting to the place and thus go for the cheapest option, they aren't there to experience the flight they are there to experience the desitination.

on the other hand, when you go to a theme park, there may be more budget options but you will still expect a really good time, as there are plenty of alternatives not in the theme park sector, or you could just not leave the house and do something at home.

 

[Smiley]

Merlin will absolutely need to up their game in customer experience - but they can also up their ticket prices as well.

if you want to go to new York, Caribbean, China etc you pretty much have to fly, the main experience you will want is the time after you land till the time you take off again.

some people will want more than a centimetre of leg space for the couple hours and be willing to pay for it, other people will only care about getting to the place and thus go for the cheapest option, they aren't there to experience the flight they are there to experience the desitination.

Well you're not reading the market on airlines. On a recent trip to New York, HALF the plane were premium seats - typically 3-10x the economy seat cost. And 1/3 business or first. Whilst many are not flying on their own dime, they become used to premium experiences in their leisure time too (look at the proliferation of high-end "faster-food" joints, boutique/luxury cinemas, etc). Or the cost of a pint (at least in the south) - £20 for a pint and a glass of wine!

There is an opportunity for Merlin to bring to market a "premium experience" that isn't a FP that's half the cost of the entry ticket to ride Hyperia. Premium experience, premium F&B (it's sunny today, why are TP not offering a frozen margherita for £12 - ker-ching). Time for an "in-between" FP like BPB Speedy pass with different "time reductions".

One size no longer fits all, and it can't be just First Class or Economy. Airlines have figured the sweet spot in the middle, and it is a goldmine.

 

[DiogoJ42]

Yesterday, a workmate (who enjoys a coaster, but is not a geek) told me he has no interest in Universal because "it's just a load of 3D cinemas and simulators, not real rides." (This was after "That's the one they're building by the estuary, right?")

I have heard similar opinions in the past. And you could argue it was true not that long ago. I'd be interested to know how widespread such views are over here?

 

[Smiley]

I think in the USA (Orlando) there was a period where it was "simulator overload" (lots of the same). I think the more recent additions - whilst still incorporating simulator elements - have added back more traditional coaster/ride elements. Will be interesting what they decide in the UK, because they will presumably want to be "weather-proof" so open 365 days a year. Difficult to do if most of your rides are open to the elements.