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USA vs NATO

G

GaryH

TS Member
Never ever thought I’d make a thread with this title but just when you thought the world couldn’t get even more crazier!

Is this the end of NATO? I wonder if Europe will create their own version and go it alone in future.

Russia and China but be rubbing their hands together with glee watching the western alliance as we have know it for the past 80 years start to collapse infront of their eyes.
 
Trump will be gone in a few years. Not convinced he is against NATO in any case. It is more about him trying to extract whatever he wants out of member countries. He is right that though that NATO doesn’t pull its weight proportionally to the US.
 
I'll give it a few days and see if he's changed his mind. He always starts with the worst threats as part of his deal-making. Sometimes he succumbs to pressure from behind the scenes or if what he's doing is tanking the stock market. We'll probably get a better idea by Wednesday.
 
Trump is bananas and egged on by ghouls, but my instinct is that he’s too keen to be domestically popular than to isolate the US over Greenland, be that through brutal tariffs or unthinkable boots on the ground.

It’s been an exhausting few weeks, though. Three more years of this to come. :confused:
 
His moves over Greenland, particularly the proposition of military action are polling negatively across all demographics. There’s simply no appetite or support for it anywhere and even his inner circle are flailing trying to vocalise any logistical case for it to the public.
 
But sadly, all reports are that he is determined to have his new football card, sorry, country...and there is nobody to stop him.
Megalomania from a silver spoon child at its finest.
Anyone care to smack his legs?
 
It’s just crazy isn’t it. Who would ever have thought the US would turn like this on its allies in Europe. Will be interesting to say the least how Europe responds and what Trump does next (probably more tariffs)

Edit : I swear I am asleep and dreaming all this craziness - but it now transpires that Trump has asked Putin to be on the Board of Peace for Gaza. Honestly, you couldn't make this up...

www.aljazeera.com

Trump asks Putin to join Gaza ‘board of peace’ even as Ukraine war rages

The Kremlin says it is seeking to "clarify all the nuances" of the offer from Washington.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com
 
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The thing that will make him hesitate about a military option is apparently he is petrified of American soldiers dying in battle, his confidence was boosted by Venezuela being a success but even that had one pilot wounded.

His generals will point out that there is no way he can invade Greenland without casualties and almost certainly deaths on the American side. American military doesn’t have much arctic expertise and missiles only take you so far in an invasion scenario (look at Russia and Ukraine).

Plus in a few months time he will need to be focused on domestic matters and trying to find ways to stop/ rig the mid-terms.
 
Dave said:
His generals will point out that there is no way he can invade Greenland without casualties and almost certainly deaths on the American side. American military doesn’t have much arctic expertise and missiles only take you so far in an invasion scenario (look at Russia and Ukraine).

Plus in a few months time he will need to be focused on domestic matters and trying to find ways to stop/ rig the mid-terms.
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I fear that there may not be that many deaths,

We all know about how Russia was supposed to take Ukraine in a few days or weeks and that wasn't true, but I think the strategy would involve very little ground fighting, I would guess they would set up a no fly zone, and a blockade around Greenland preventing anyone from entering or leaving and either wait for their resources to run out, or target all the military targets and then enter.

the reason why that would work if because Americas air force is significantly better than Europe's, the best Europe has is the F35, an American designed plane (meaning they have a lot of specs and knowledge on it, giving them a big advantage)
Europe also has the Eurofighter but it isn't stealth and America has the F22.

Europe is looking at working on a home grown stealth fighter (from what I recall seeing) however this probably won't be ready in time (hopefully this will encourage it to get started).
 
The one thing that is scary though are the accounts from soldiers in Venezuela who mention a sound weapon which made them fall to the ground, vomit and bleed through their ears and noses.

While the US has shared a lot of its weaponary with Europe and the UK, I’m sure there are weapons, like these only the US possess.

I honestly would be very very very surprised if the US goes in with its military though. It will invoke Article 5 and we will see Europe at war with the US.

Just mind blowing even thinking that scenario. Europe at war with the USA. Crazy crazy crazy
 
If NATO collapses, and the USA goes to war with Europe, then I feel Russia will escalate on Ukraine and China into Taiwan. We really will be in a world war then (although I actually think we already are)

It’s unthinkable and making me think twice about my two US holiday this year.

I genuinely can see him doing this though and invading Greenland. The guy is a fruit loop.
 
Jb85 said:
It’s unthinkable and making me think twice about my two US holiday this year.

I genuinely can see him doing this though and invading Greenland. The guy is a fruit loop.
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I have many, many people who have been to America who have either cancelled plans, or have sworn off from going until trump is out, and that was a few months ago before Greenland got into the news again, I myself am not planning on going back either until he is gone.

it is defiantly a possibility of him invading Greenland, I think there are a few reasons:
Will europe do anything?
This is similar to Russia, america has nukes and a massive military, will the cost of fighting be worth it to Europe?
As I said previously there isn't that much (depending on the stratergy the US takes) the currently Europe could do, unless they move tons of supplies over soon they could be blocked.
Trump hasn't hired the most competent people for his departments, a lot of them seem like yes men so there may not be much he is hearing against this,

that being said there are of course many reasons it may not:
If europe fights, will it be worth the cost?
You could get sanctioned by Europe (good bye golf clubs in scotland),
Trump would destroy NATO,
Invading greenland isn't too popular within america
 
Jesus he’s mobilising 1500 airborne 11th (cold weather fighters) to allegedly go to “Minnesota”…

I have a sneaky feeling they’re going north
 
Ash said:
Jesus he’s mobilising 1500 airborne 11th (cold weather fighters) to allegedly go to “Minnesota”…

I have a sneaky feeling they’re going north
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Trump is mobilising the troops, not Jesus.

They are going there to "protect" ICE staff...in Minnesota...following the death of the protester Ms Good...it is cold there, but still two thousand miles Greenland...in completely the wrong direction.
Nothing to do with Greenland or NATO.
Everything to do with populist MAGA immigration policies.

If he was sending troops to Greenland, He would be more open and blunt.
 
Yeah, in spite of everything, I still don’t see Trump using force in Greenland - he just backed off of Iran and that would have been much less controversial domestically, internationally and even within his own army.

This strikes me as more of a hissy fit than a prelude to invasion - Trump is very much of the ‘everything for a price’ school of thought and I think Europe sending troops to Greenland made the penny drop that he really isn’t going to get it. I also have to wonder how much of this is some desire to go down as the president who gained new territory for the 250th year of the US - I expect he’ll become ever more belligerent as we get towards July 4.

And if we do make it to the end of Trumps presidency without going nuclear, I certainly won’t mourn the loss of American influence over Europe.
 
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