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With PP looming will local authorities relax Alton planning restrictions to protect jobs?

Rob said:
London Paramount has investment in place. It is happening!
:)
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Can you provide links/reports to back this up? The only thing I can find talks about a Kuwait company holding a 75% stake in the company planning the park, and they've only invested a un-disclosed 7 figure sum. At the very most, that's 0.5% of the total money required, £2billion.

I'd love to see this park happen. But I'm not getting excited until I go online and book tickets!
 
haydn! said:
Can you provide links/reports to back this up? The only thing I can find talks about a Kuwait company holding a 75% stake in the company planning the park, and they've only invested a un-disclosed 7 figure sum. At the very most, that's 0.5% of the total money required, £2billion.

I'd love to see this park happen. But I'm not getting excited until I go online and book tickets!
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LRCH have stated that they have the investment. There wouldn't be an agreement in place to buy the land from Lafarge if there hadn't been solid evidence of money. I doubt we will ever see any detail financial information regarding it all.

:)
 
London Paramount is probably more likely to happen than any 'big new theme park' news we've had for decades. It certainly seems to be in more advanced stages than anything I've ever seen for a new UK park of this scale.

Still a chance of it falling through although it seems likely to go ahead so far.
 
Something Paramount will likely open in the UK, the question is how much of it will be theme park and how much of it will be an entertainment complex.

Towers may have to up their game a bit but the planning isn't really the issue (it is sometimes a little over restrictive (Th13teens ruined tower rejection being a case in point), but mostly it's down to budgets.

Thorpe and Chessie have bigger worries as they are mainly regional parks and Paramount may make a hit on their numbers.
 
The theme park is the heart of London Paramount. If the development happens then the theme park happens. A Paramount licensed entertainments complex isn't appealing for the public or Paramount.

:)
 
Rob said:
The theme park is the heart of London Paramount. If the development happens then the theme park happens. A Paramount licensed entertainments complex isn't appealing for the public or Paramount.

:)
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Avoiding going too far off topic but every description of the project starts with a description of the entertainment complex, including cinema's, bowling ect.

"The park will feature Paramount brands such as 'Star Trek', 'Top Gun' and 'Titanic', as well as Europe's largest indoor water park, theatres, live music venues, attractions, cinemas, restaurants, event space and hotels."

With the stated budget of £2 Billion (consider Splash Landings alone cost £30,000,000 Ten years ago), not a whole lot is left for a traditional decent sized theme park included so i remain cautious (if optimistic).
 
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Dave said:
Avoiding going too far off topic but every description of the project starts with a description of the entertainment complex, including cinema's, bowling ect.

"The park will feature Paramount brands such as 'Star Trek', 'Top Gun' and 'Titanic', as well as Europe's largest indoor water park, theatres, live music venues, attractions, cinemas, restaurants, event space and hotels."

With the stated budget of £2 Billion (consider Splash Landings alone cost £30,000,000 Ten years ago), not a whole lot is left for a traditional decent sized theme park included so i remain cautious (if optimistic).
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I've read into this project a lot, if it happens (which is still an if, of course it can fall through) then there will be a decent theme park. They state many times this is comparable to and to compete with Disneyland Paris. Only a theme park does that.

I have full confidence in this project. The next 12 months or so are going to be very important in regards to what does happen but right now all the evidence is hugely positive so that is how I will remain.

:)
 
Rob said:
I've read into this project a lot, if it happens (which is still an if, of course it can fall through) then there will be a decent theme park. They state many times this is comparable to and to compete with Disneyland Paris. Only a theme park does that.

I have full confidence in this project. The next 12 months or so are going to be very important in regards to what does happen but right now all the evidence is hugely positive so that is how I will remain.

:)
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They need to increase their budget then, the current maths don't add up when you factorin the various elements to the whole project on a site with no existing infrastructure.

Anyway we are now way off topic
 
As I expect Paramount Park will feature mostly positive and enjoyable themed areas, I'd be more interested to see if it will be the nail-in-the-coffin for Merlin's trademark dark themes (many of which will be ageing quite badly by the time 2020 rolls around).
 
Dave said:
They need to increase their budget then, the current maths don't add up when you factorin the various elements to the whole project on a site with no existing infrastructure.

Anyway we are now way off topic
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I trust they know what they are doing! Shanghai Disneyland is reportedly costing 26 billion Chinese Yuan which equates about £2.7 billion. And that is Disney prices which always seem inflated compared to other theme park projects. I accept there are probably different costs in China and the UK but still, a decent comparison.

It may be worth moving some of this discussion to the London Paramount thread, as this is indeed off topic yet an interesting point of discussion!

:)
 
One thing Alton and other park will have to do is to give there parks a massive refurbishment. The whole park looks pritty shoddy, if PP is built it looks like it will be at a amazing standard and obviously new.
 
Towers has always had the Planning restrictions, and if anything they led to the more individual and iconic rides that we have today. Part of the magic is being unable to see the other rides, it does make it feel like each area of the park is properly separate. Whereas at PortAventura we were in I think the Far West and could see Shambhala, obviously it's a great view, but you don't feel completely set in one area, as you are at Towers. Oh, and with regard to the buildings, it's probably a good thing they're restricted, otherwise we'd just have shipping container skyscrapers everywhere.

The big market that both parks will be trying to hit is the family market, Paramount have clearly indicated that they will be hitting the family market, but I doubt it'll be for the younger audience. This puts Towers ahead slightly for the mixed age family, with CBeebies and the likes. But for older families it will be a lot more competitive, with most families likely to go to one or the other, not both, so I expect that's where we'll see the most investment at Towers as Paramount gets closer, assuming the planning permission is approved, and building actually starts.

With regard to the rest of the guests, the vast majority are Northerners, so I don't think there's much to worry about on that front. I know very few people from home who have been to Thorpe Park, as it's too far when Alton Towers is closer, so I doubt it'd be that different if Paramount opens. The gate figures that Paramount have estimated are pretty ridiculous for a brand new park anyway, they will affect Towers' figures no doubt, I mean it'll be a brand new park, but I doubt that it'll be that substantial to affect jobs and the likes.
 
Realistically could the Paramount park be something like PortAventura in 1995? That cost around $450 million at the time (not sure how that inflates to USD now). PA didn't have a lot when it opened but it had enough to be a theme park. That's kinda what I imagine Paramount London being like initially.
 
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Shanghai is costing £3.7billion ($5.5 billion or 34 billion Yuan) - that's taking into account the initial theme park and resort developments, plus the extra $800million Disney agreed to contribute in 2014. So the budget is massively different, but this is Disney where their attractions have always seemed massively over inflated in cost.

£2billion will buy a considerable amount of top quality attractions and infrastructure in the UK, but as is typically the British way of doing things, I'd expect the final budget to soar to £3billion!
 
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haydn! said:
Shanghai is costing £3.7billion ($5.5 billion or 34 billion Yuan) - that's taking into account the initial theme park and resort developments, plus the extra $800million Disney agreed to contribute in 2014. So the budget is massively different, but this is Disney where their attractions have always seemed massively over inflated in cost.

£2billion will buy a considerable amount of top quality attractions and infrastructure in the UK, but as is typically the British way of doing things, I'd expect the final budget to soar to £3billion!
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Thanks for that, I had not seen about the increased budget.

Who's to say that the £2 billion Paramount budget is set in stone anyway. At IAAPA the CEO of Mexico's Xcaret group said: "We never know how much a park is going to cost until we finish it. You have to focus on quality; we have to do what we have to do. It's not a conventional way to run a business, but if you make something with love, by nature it will be a success". Those words are very true and a certain park in Germany has these principles.

:)
 
Rob said:
Thanks for that, I had not seen about the increased budget.

Who's to say that the £2 billion Paramount budget is set in stone anyway. At IAAPA the CEO of Mexico's Xcaret group said: "We never know how much a park is going to cost until we finish it. You have to focus on quality; we have to do what we have to do. It's not a conventional way to run a business, but if you make something with love, by nature it will be a success". Those words are very true and a certain park in Germany has these principles.

:)
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Investors like returns not love.
 
Dave said:
But they have no investors :)
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A decent return is a decent return, investors or no investors. There are many different ways of trying to get a decent return. Merlin is one extreme, EP is the other extreme.

:)
 
Rob said:
A decent return is a decent return, investors or no investors. There are many different ways of trying to get a decent return. Merlin is one extreme, EP is the other extreme.

:)
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I feel we are never going to agree on this, the optimism of youth versus the jadedness of age :)

But in response the return needed for one family is lower than that needed for 20 investors
 
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